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Pip is aware of the negative effect his "great expectations" have had on him. This being the case, why doesn't he make an effort to change? What could/should he do?
Pip is a big spender now, by his own admission. Why does he have regret about doing this with Herbert?
As for Herbert...have you ever been with someone who has more money than you and felt that you should keep up with their spending habits?
Herbert has an interesting view on what makes one prosperous in America...
Allusion Alert!!! Lloyd's of London...look it up and note its history.
What is humorous about Herbert and Pip's efforts concerning their mounting debts?
What significance do you think Mrs. Joe's death will have for Pip? for Joe?
15 comments:
Pip does not make an effort to change because I don't think he thinks he can. That by being passed down these expectations, it comes with leaving behind his old life. I think that if he really wanted to change the first step would be allowing Joe to come back into his life and not just treat him like a common towns person. In the chapter when Pip and Herbert look at their debt, Pip feels regret because his heavy spending rubbed off onto Herbert and put him in debt as well. I also believe that Mrs. Joe's death will be significant because it will bring Joe and Pip back into each others lives.
I think Pip is hesitant to change because he doesn't want to go back to being the old, common version of himself. He enjoys having to ability to be a spender, something he never before was able to do.
Pip regrets doing this with Herbert, however, because he feels as if he is being a negative influence. Herbert does not have the financial means on his own that Pip has come into, yet he spends money as Pip does. As Earl pointed out, it's natural to want to fit in with those around you whether or not you should. I'm honestly more likely to buy something decently expensive if my friends are as well, so I understand.
I feel as if the death of Mrs. Joe will have a very negative impact on Pip. I'm not sure why, I just feel that it wouldn't have happened unless it would cause some sort of internal conflict. I think Joe is going to have an extremely hard time with his wife's death, because for what ever reason, he loved her even when she was controlling and abusive.
Hey there Wikipedia! Lloyd's, also known as Lloyd's of London, is a British insurance and reinsurance market. It serves as a meeting place where multiple financial backers, underwriters, or members, whether individuals (traditionally known as Names) or corporations, come together to pool and spread risk. Unlike most of its competitors in the insurance and reinsurance industry, it is not a company. The Society of Lloyd's was incorporated by the Lloyd's Act 1871.
*having the ability to be a spender
We all have graduated in one extent or another. Whether it's something as simple as getting a job or graduating a grade level, we all have felt some form of moving forward in our lives. Just as it is insulting to call someone of age unemployed or to call someone a freshman when they are a senior, i feel as though Pip would find it insulting to go back to both the financial and moral state he was in before he inherited his money. With this inherited money, Pip has become a pretty big spender. Although this does not have a negetive effect on him because of his wealth, the same can not be said of his friend Herbert. Herbert has the desire to keep up with his friend, just as many of us have before. I know i've been forced a bit out of my comfort zone by friends. There seems to be a safety in numbers, and the spending of Herbert's money to have him fit with Pip has ran him into debt.
I agree with Robin, that letting Joe into his life would sincerely help turn Pip around. It would humble Pip as well as give him someone to follow for morals. I also know what it is like to be pushed into spending money just because your friends are doing it too. No one wants to be left behind, but I also know that Pip should slow his spending down for the sake of his friend. I found their debt controling to be very comical. The paperwork makes it seem as though something is getting done, yet nothing is accomplished in the end. For Pip, I feel Mrs. Joe's death will be a burden because he will now feel guilt and have to go back to town to face the damage he has done to poor Joe. For Joe, his wife's death might be a blessing in disguise. She was a nag to begin with and not really a wife in the end. It is sad to say, but perhaps without her, Joe will actually become the man of his house for the first time ever.
Pip will not make the effort to change for it goes against all that he is trying to become- wealthy, successful, etc. As much as Pip wants to be independent, he still needs the fatherly figure and guidance in his life from someone like Joe. Pip's poor decision of spending his money exceedingly has not only caused him debt but also Herbert. For once, least Pip shows some type of emotion and feels bad for his friend. Mrs. Joe's death may lead to the reconnection of Joe and Pip. I believe Pip now realizes how Mrs. Joe was an important part of his upbringing, and wants to return the favor by rekindling his relationship with Biddy and Joe.
Pip has come into great expectations and finally has the ability to be a big spender, and big spenders always find a way to get themselves into some big debt. Welcome to the good life Mr. Pip! Just like the famous rapper Notorious BIG said (and I'll put it in normal terms instead of slang) "The more money, the more problems." I thought that pertained to Pip's life in general but especially in this chapter. Pip is spending money like crazy, because he can. I think he thinks that only common folk are careful with money, so that is why he shouldn't be. In order to be a well-respected gentleman, he has to spend money like a well-respected gentleman. Also, joining The Finches of the Grove was a huge mistake. That club adds unnecessary pressure to Pip and Herbert to spend even more money. Pip has regretted bringing Herbert into this because like other bloggers have said Herbert isn't as well off as Pip is. Pip has said that he would have willingly taken Herbert's expenses but Herbert is just too proud. What I thought was humorous about Herbert and Pip's efforts concerning their debt was that they ordered "something rather special for dinner, with a bottle of something similarly out of common way" to pre-game themselves for mounting debt? Sounds pretty ironic and completely irresponsible to me.
Pip thinks that he would have ended up the same way if he hadn't had expectations, and still liked Estella.Pip does feel guilty that his amount of spending has led Herbert to spend more, but he continues to lead Herbert into further debt. They both try to get into "The Finches of the Grove" a useless organization that just seems to waste money. Herbert looks around every morning, but he becomes despondent late at night due to his increasing debt, forgoing "looking around" for other ideas. Herbert has a entertaining idea to buy a rifle and shoot buffalo in America as a way to make a fortune.
I think Joe will be lonely without Mrs. Joe, and will want to be around Pip more. Pip will be forced to see Joe if he goes to his sister's funeral, the first time since their fight.
I applaud Olivia for quoting a rapper in our AP English blog! :D I think that Pip wasn't used to having money when he was a common folk and now that he has money, it's burning a hole in his pocket and he wants to spend it. However, he is doing so and not realizing that he is going into debt, and also dragging Herbert into it.
I have kind of been in Herbert's shoes with my sister. She is older and has a better paying job, so when we go shopping I sometimes feel the need to buy stuff I probably didn't need in the first place.
I agree with Olivia that joining the Finches of the Grove didn't help their finacial problems considering they spend their money foolishly as Pip said in this chapter.
I think Pip should've let Joe in and been nicer to him. After all, Joe was there for Pip when he was growing up, and for him to treat him the way he is really bugs me. I think Mrs. Joe's death will hopefully bring Pip and Joe back together, but it also might keep Pip away as well and just bring Joe and Biddy closer together.
Pip has the idea that since he is rich, he can buy whatever he wants. I think that if Pip actually watches what he spends then he is no better than the "lower class" who have to economize and watch what they spend. Pip feels guilty about his spending problems with Herbert because he knows that Herbert can't afford to jeep up wit him. I think that Pip wouldn't feel that regret if it was with someone else. He genuinely likes Herbert and that relationship bears down on Pip causing his guilt.
It is actually quite frustrating for me to read about how Pip is upset with himself about his decisions and about how his "great expectations" were changing him and yet he does nothing about it. It wouldn't be easy, because sometimes spending money is like an addiction, but if he really cares about the fact that even though he is richer now, his life isn't better, than he should do something about it. He even keeps saying that he is always miserable. I have been with people who have more money than me, however I don't recall ever feeling I had to keep up with their spending. However, when we think about Pip's personality and his selfishness lately, I can see how Pip would feel this way. We see that Pip and Herbert "try" to start keeping track off their debt and paying it off, however, to do this, they should be cutting down on spending, which they are not doing, so it isn't helping at all.
I was very surprised when Mrs. Joe died. I definitely didn't see that coming. However, I am hoping that this will maybe jog something in Pip to show him that you need to show love to those you care about, because you never know how long you have with them. Not that he particularly cared about his sister, however it could have been Joe or Biddy, and then he would have felt very guilty.
I think Pip feels his behavior comes with his new role and thats just how it is, and he can't just change it. He almost seems to have lost all the humility he learned from his youth. Pip also needs to learn that he can be considered an inspiration or model to people that chose to be around him, like Herbert, he should feel bad about it but then again he isn't responsible for other people's actions.
Yeah, i agree it was really unexpected that Mrs. Joe died and Pip needs to bring Joe into his life more because they both need it, but i think that Pip is stuck in a rut and his expectations are preventing him from being a good friend.
I think that Pip doesn't want to change because even though he realizes that there are many negative effects, he likes feeling like he is important and not common. Pip could change by gong back home and being with Joe, he would still have his money and would be around wholesome people that he enjoys spending time with. Pip needs to realize that it doesn't matter what other people think of you, it matters what you think of yourself. If your not happy, then something has to change so you can be. The Lloyd's of London is a British insurance and reinsurance market that serves as a meeting place. It"s motto is "Uberrima Fides," which is Latin for "utmost good faith." Herbert and Pip's efforts to fix their mounting debts is humorous because their problems never seem to go away. They praise themselves for putting the effort in to fix them, but never actually diminish the problem altogether. I think that Mrs. Joe's death will make Pip feel guilty for abandoning her and Joe. Hopefully this will make him visit and reconnect with Joe. I think Joe will be sad but somewhat relieved because he will no longer have to take care of her.
It is often one thing to cause oneself problems, but to cause others problems is an entirely different thing. It is reasonable to see Pip regret over causing Herbert to exhibit bad spending-habits. Pip is not entirely proud of his perils in debt, but he feels bad for Herbert because Pip realizes that he himself is the cause of Herbert's debt too. Herbert and Pip's efforts concerning their mounting debt is humorous because their arduous efforts at calculating their debt does nothing to quell it, yet erases their guilt at being in the hole.
I hate the word expectations. Pip can have a perfect life back at home. the only reason he wasn't happy before was because of his obnoxious sister. now that she's out of the picture, Pip can be a bachelor with Joe and do nothing but get drunk and make horseshoes or whatever it is they do. Pip is in debt now, what an idiot. I'd like to see him become a criminal to pay off his debts and make full circle with some kid in the woods by asking for vittles and a file. I'm curious as to whether Mrs. joe succumbed to her old wound on the head or died in some other fashion. Probably just her head. Maybe not though.
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