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Why does Jaggers bring up the matter of Drummel and Estella's impending marriage? Is it for Pip's sake or for Molly's sake?
Why do you think Jaggers brings up the idea that Drummle will have to beat Estella if he wants the upper hand in the marriage?
Molly is said to have been "tamed" by Jaggers from the moment she goes to work for him. How do you suppose she was "tamed"?
13 comments:
I think that Jaggers brought up Drummel and Estella's marriage to antagonize Pip. I think he wants Pip to feel the need to beat out Drummel and entices Pip with talk of their marriage. When Jaggers brings up Drummel beating Molly it lights a fire under Pip, which is what he wants to do. I think that Jaggers wants to see Pip fight Drummel for Estella's love. However, I also think that because Jaggers knows about Estella being Molly's child, it is also a way of indirectly telling Molly about her daughter and how she is doing. The question about how Jagggers tamed Molly I think is in a form of black mail.
Jagger's may have brought up Drummel and Estella's impending marriage to let Molly know what is happening in her lost daughter's life. I also think Jaggers did so to make Pip realize it's not too late for him to take action over Drummel and Estella's marriage. Like Robin said, Jaggers ignited a spark in Pip to see if he would fight Drummel for Estella's love. I also feel Molly is being black mailed by Mr. Jaggers. Even though Molly seems to demonstrate her physical power, she occupies a position of great weakness. She is completely "tamed" by Mr. Jaggers for as a servant and a woman she cannot refuse him. However, the idea that Molly may have committed murder suggests that she was not always so submissive. Wemmick's description of Molly as a "wild beast tamed" shows Jaggers dominance which portrays his strength.
I agree with Robin, Jaggers knows how much Pip is infatuated with Estella. Him bringing her up seems to be a way to torment him. As if Pip doesn't have enough problems in his life already. Jaggers preys on the weak in order for him to appear superior to others. He knows Estella is Pip's weakness and uses this for his advantage. Jaggers also seems to think that Drummle will have to beat Estella for superiority in the marriage because of her refined way of living. This is said to comment on Estella's cold and uncaring manner. After growing up under Miss Havisham's rule Estella maintains a skewed look on the world which wouldn't be changed by Drummle or any man. Jaggers seems to bring up the conversation to Pip because he knows Pip's interest in the subject will lengthen the conversation. He talks about this in front of Molly to give her information on her daughter's life.
I think Jaggers brings up the matter of Drummel and Estella’s marriage for both Pip and Molly’s sake. Like others have said, I think Jaggers brought up the marriage to inform Molly of how her daughter is doing. When Jaggers mentions the marriage to Pip, he has a way of doing it in which he hints to Pip that it is not too late for him to win over Estella. Jaggers explains that “the stronger will win in the end, but the stronger has to be found out first.” When Jaggers make this statement, he is provoking a fight between Pip and Drummel. Jaggers also brings up the idea that Drummel will have to beat Estella if he wants to have the upper hand in their marriage. When Jaggers mentions this, it leads the reader to assume that he been able to “tame” Molly through abusing her. The fact that Jaggers has “tamed” Molly and encourages that Estella shall be tamed supports the assumption that Estella is Molly’s daughter. Another possible reason that Jaggers mentions his taming of Molly could be to help Pip realize that, if done correctly, Estella is easily tamable. For example, Miss Havisham was able to control Estella, and Jaggers was able to control Molly. Both women have a history of not being able to stand up for themselves, and Jaggers seems to work that to his advantage.
I think Jagger’s brought up the marriage for Pip’s sake also knowing that it would possibly hurt Molly. Jagger’s likes to have the upper hand in many situations, so by bringing this up he knew he would be in control of the conversation. This is also why he brought up Drummle beating Estella, maybe to remind Molly of how he tamed her. I feel bad for Molly, although it didn’t say how he tamed her it seems like there was some unsaid information that happened between them before. It almost seems like now she is forced to stay with them because she acted very skittish and uncomfortable. I hope that later in the novel it will tell more about her and her past.
I agree with Bethany that it seems something happened between Jagger and Molly and that she is forced to stay with him. Maybe he had some blackmail or something on her. I think Jagger brought up Estella's marriage to hurt Pip and torment him with the thought of her with someone else and to see if he would maybe fight for her or just give up trying to win her over. I also think that he brought it up to in a round-about way share with Molly what was going on with her daughter.
I never thought about the idea of Mr. Jaggers' mentioning of Estella's marriage for Molly's sake, but now that I think about it, I think it is a very good possibility. I'm not sure how it could be for Pip's "benefit" because it obviously makes him miserable. I think Jaggers has a good point when he says Drummle will have to fight to have an upper hand in that marriage because Estella has a very strong temper and is very stubborn. I have a feeling that Jaggers "tamed" Molly similar to the way the "shrew" was tamed in play "the Taming of the Shrew". The only way she could be tamed was through love. At least, I hope this was how she was tamed.
"I have an impending engagement," said I, glancing at Wemmick, who was putting fish into the post-office. What? Did i miss something in the book that explains why this makes sense? While jaggers has supposedly been a powerful man this whole book, this is the first time that his actions actually made me think of him as powerful, without simply being told. He invites Pip to dinner as if he had a knife to his throat. If Pip refused to go out to dinner with him, Jaggers would probably drag him into a dark alley and take advantage of him. At least, that's the impression i got. Even though Estella is married and Pip has no reason to care about her at all, he still finds a way by discovering that Molly is Estella's mother. I won't be surprised if Pip tried to seduce her, just because she reminds him of Estella.
Just when I thought the Estella drama was over, she comes back full throttle. Like said above, Jaggers comments about Estella and Drummels was to ignite the idea of fighting for Estella. Jaggers knows about Molly's relation to Estella. He brought it up so that Pip might make the connection between Molly and Estella. Saying that Drummel would have to beat Estella to tame her and then mentioning Molly being tamed is another hint to Pip that they are indeed related. He is pointing out that not only do they look similar, but they also contain a strong- willed and stubborn temper.
I agree with the above, that Jaggers announced Estella and Drummle's marriage to benefit both Molly and Pip. Jaggers wanted to see Pip's reaction and to see if he could put the pieces together and find out that Molly is Estella's mother. It was also for Molly's sake just to hear how her daughter was doing.
Mr. Jaggers brings up the marriage to find out how Pip feels about Estella now, and possibly to warn Pip about the marriage because of Pip's plan to travel to Miss Havisham's. Jaggers brings up the fact that Drummel must beat Estella to antagonize Pip into some form of action to fight for Estella, because he believes that Pip loves her and Jagger knows that Estella and Drummel would have a very bad marriage full of fights because each has a very dominant personality, whereas Pip and Estella could get along much better. I think Jagger tamed Molly by taking her daughter and giving Estella to Miss Havisham. It could be that Molly is "tamed" because she knows Jagger took care of her daughter- having her be raised to inherit a fortune, or he could be blackmailing Molly with Estella's safety.
I think jaggers brought up Estella's impending marriage to let Molly know what was happening to her daughter possibly to antagonize both her and Pip. Jaggers talking about Drummle Besting Estella was meant to rub the thought into Pip's mind and to make him feel hopeless. It probally was also to let molly know that her daughter was going to be tamed like she was, and that is what happens to strong women. The whole conversation just demonstrates Jaggers evil aspects. Jaggers now seems not only the mysterious juicial lawyer but a msterious corupt man. Especially concerning the story about Molly, it could be supposed he has some black mail on her or she has to pay him back for saving her life.
Jaggers brings up the matter of the impending marriage between Drummel and Estella for Molly's sake, but also to show his dominance over Pip. I believe Jaggers does update Molly on her daughter's happenings, again to show his control over her life. In Pip's case he shares the unfortunate news to not only challenge how Pip will react, when learning that his dream is spoiled, but also to remind Pip of his advantage in social situations. Jaggers later mentions his idea that for Drubble to have the upper hand in the marriage he will have to beat Estella. In saying this he devestates Pip again, proving Pip really is in love with Estella, and still cares for her.
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