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You should note that the walk described taken early in the chapter was taken in the fog. What does fog represent or do in a story? How might this scene of spotting the stray dog be significant? What would be the difference between spotting the dog in the fog versus spotting the dog in bright sunlight?
Noting how Edgar's father treats strays in general -- and this particular stray, specifically -- what do we learn about him as a person?
How is Claude's view of the stray different? Where does Trudy lean on the subject -- more towards Gar or more towards Claude? What do their beliefs about strays tell you about them as characters?
Claude tells Edgar the story of Forte. Edgar doesn't believe it. Do you? Explain with details from the story to support your stance.
Edgar reads a section from The Jungle Book. What is the significance of the selection as it relates to this point in the story?
What problem does the silent pact between Claude and Edgar present for Edgar?
40 comments:
The problem that the silent pact presented was that Edgar had to make a big decision. In the book, it says the "price was silent" and that he had to make his choice of what to say. Edgar was forced to not tell he father or anyone the truth of what happened. That mean that he had to keep a secret from both of his parents. Edgar had to choose between either telling his parents the truth and not feeling the guilt of keeping things from them, or to keep it a secret to save the stray's life. It was a big decision he had to make, and he didn't have much time to make it.
When Claude carved the turtle into the soap, it reminded me of the sign in the prologue. In the prologue, there was a sign where a snake was biting the tail of a turtle, kind of like the turtle Claude was carving.
I thought the story of Forte was very unbelievable. Throughout the book, you are shown what a great man Gar is and how much he cares for his dogs. The story tries to infer that Gar was a drunk and aggressive man who used his dog Forte to fight with other dogs. Not only does this contradict the characteristics of Gar, but it also goes against everything he has done to help raise healthy and obedient dogs. Claude told Edgar how Gar would take Forte to Park Falls and have him fight with other dogs. He also said that sometimes Gar would get in fights with the dog’s owner and how he would usually come home drunk. To me, this sounds like a made up story because Gar has always been so loving to both his dogs and his family.
Claude could be carving a turtle into the soap because it could have just been a meer coincidence or he could indeed be the man from the beginning of the book.
The story about the stray doesn't seem to believable because on the subject of the stray, Edgar's father not once mentions to kill it. Also throughout this entire book the author trys to get us to see how caring and nurturing Gar really is towards these dogs. So Claude saying his father killed a dog because some man told him to doesn't seem to match up with the man in this book.
Fog usually represents a sense of mystery in a story. Spotting the dog in the fog makes the reader wonder if the dog is really there or is this dog just in Gar and Edgar’s imagination. Had the dog been spotted in bright sunlight, I think that the dog wouldn’t be questionable and readers would automatically believe that this dog was real. We learn that Gar is very loving and nurturing towards animals and doesn’t want to harm them, he wants to just find them a loving home that will take care of the animal properly. Claude wants to kill the dog to keep it from harming the dogs that are already on the farm.
I do believe the story of Forte. It explains why he makes such an effort to take care of dogs now, because he's trying to make up for what he did. It explains why he absolutely refuses to kill the stray. That incident changed him into the calm and peaceful man that he is. He hates what he did and how he was and doesn't want to go back to that.
The section that he reads talks of the animal that was born and raised in captivity and escaped and didn't want to go back to that. It's similar to the stray because it's resisting coming up to the house. It doesn't want to be in the hands of humans anymore because of what they did to him last night. Abandoning him. He wants to live on his own and be on his own.
The silent pact makes it difficult for Edgar to continue to try to get the stray to come to the house because Claude told Gar that the stray would probably not come back. Even though it probably will.
Like Edgar, I do not believe Claude’s story about Gar and Forte. Claude claims that Gar used to use Forte to fight other dogs and tries to make Edgar view his father differently. Since Claude arrived, there has been tension between the two brothers based on a prior conflict between them. The narrator reveals that Claude had struggled with his family relationships. Also, Claude appears to be sneaky and slimy. When Claude is caught drinking in the barn by Edgar, he asks Edgar to keep this secret and reveals how to sneak back into the house quietly. Claude’s story is just another sneaky plot against Gar.
Edgar’s father treats the stray almost as a person, as he lets the dog choose weather he wants to stay with the Sawtelles or wants to go his own way. He teaches Edgar about how Sawtelle dogs came to be, and that without other dogs their canines would be non-existent. This act shows that Edgar’s father cares for all dogs, not just his own. This shows us that Gar is a caring person and passionate about all dogs, which I admire him for.
Claude thinks that the stray should be taken care of immediately so that the stray will not hurt any of the Sawtelle’s canines in any way. Claude believes that either he or Gar should shoot the stray before any harm is done. Gar refuses, as the stray hasn’t done anything wrong. To me, this argument shows me the close-mindedness and ignorance of Claude, and makes me dislike him even more. I was hurt to read that Trudy agreed with Claude, although I did understand her reasoning. Trudy, like all Sawtelles, only wants the best for her dogs.
Because Edgar's father treats the stray like this, it shows how kind he is and how knowledgeable he is about dogs. Edgar's father can tell the dog had been eating gravel based on the color of the dog's stool. Also, when the dog was skeptical about taking the food thrown at him, Edgar's father knew how to get the dog to take the food.
Claude thinks they should shoot the stray because he thinks the stray might breed with a Sawtelle dog, hunt, or just starve to death. Trudy agrees with clude because she doesn't want the stray breeding with a Sawtelle dog. Edgar's father's refusal to shoot the stray shows kindness and Claude's desire to shoot the stray shows him being less gentle/kind, not cruel but perhaps a little harsh.
The turtle carved into the soap might have to do with the turtle and the two snakes sign in Korea. Edgar's father really cares about the stray. He says that the dog must be given time even when Claude says that it might get in a fight with the other dogs. Claude also argued that the stray is crazy. Even the mother agreed with Claude but the father remained stubborn and defiant.
I don't understand why Claude would share the story of Forte with Edgar in the first place. I don't believe it either. I think Claude should have told Edgar why is he and Gar in conflict.
Gar and Claude had two very different approaches on how to handle the stray dog. Gar explained to Edgar that the dog can decide for itself what it wants to do. If the dog wants to come in, it will; if the dog doesn’t, it won’t. When Edgar asked his father if he would consider bringing the stray into the line, he told him that, at more than one point, the Sawtelles have brought in different dogs.
Claude has an opposite view. He thinks that if the dog comes near the barn it will try to start a fight with the other dogs and that he thinks it would be best to shoot the dog. You can also tell the Trudy is leaning more on Claude’s side when she tells Gar that she doesn’t want to be blamed for the dog if it is caught on a neighbor’s property.
You learn that Gar is a much more compassionate character and Claude is more cold-hearted. Gar has patience and is willing to give the stray a chance, while Claude just wants to get the dog out of their property and out of mind.
The significance of Claude carving the turtle into the soap is Claude is very turtle-like. He likes to retreat into his "shell" and keep to himself. He is in fact turtle-y enough for the turtle club.
Claude's view of the stray is different because he just wants to shoot the dog. He wants to get the stray out of the way so it doesn't hurt anyone and so they don't have to take care of it anymore. Gar on the other hand wants to take care of the dog and take it down to the kennel so someone will take care of it. After what happened with Forte, Gar is determined not to hurt a dog ever again.
There was a turtle on the sign of the shop in the first chapter... Fog is mysterious and distorts reality in stories. Seeing the dog in sunlight would have been too real, too tangible. He's a kind man. He feels shooting dogs- even strays is a waste of life. Claude sees the stray as a nuisance that needs to be taken care of. I think at least most of the story of Forte is true. Edgar's father is a kind man and he is passionate about dogs, if he made a connection to a stray is seems to stand he would take it in. Edgar is trying to lure the stray in, maybe get it to trust him. As he is doing so, he lies to his mother. His secret isn't exactly the same as the one in The Jungle Book, but it is a secret none-the-less. Edgar is now forced to lie to his parents about a dasrk thing that Claude has tried to do against their will.
The story of Edgar's father and Forte from Claude seems a little far fetched. If someone cares soo much about dogs as Edgar's family does then why would Gar purposely hurt them? Honesty I could more likely see Claude hurting the dogs than Gar. Only because I can assume that Claude went to jail but we don't really know what the charges were. Nowadays, people can be sent to jail for animal cruelty but in the 50's I don't know if those laws were set in place yet. Either way I still don't believe that Gar would've been into dog fighting. It doesn't seem to fit his characters personality.
Fog represents mystery and what's hidden. when Edgar first sees this stray dog, it was only something that caught his eye in the fog. he couldn't tell what it was, whatever was at a distance was a mystery to him. When he did realize it was a dog, he thought one of the kennel dogs escaped. He was wrong, however, because all of their dogs were accounted for. Seeing this dog in the fog raises Edgar's curiosity, and he wants to find out more about the mysterious dog.
Fog in a story represents the unknown or unseen danger in the distance. It creates a creepy kind of vibe. Seeing the stray in the fog makes the dog seem more mysterious. Had Edgar seen him in the sun the dog probably would have seemed less majestic to Edgar. He sees this dog running free and wants to tame it. This could lead to the unseen event in the story of Edgar's life.
When Claude was telling Edgar the story of Forte I first believed it. Gar was a dumb kid who had too much fun and then made some dumb decisions. When it got to the point when Claude was telling Edgar that Gar got Forte out of the car and shot him himself I started to not believe him. If Gar loved the dog as much as Claude was saying Gar did then it just did not make sense to me. Then when Claude said Gar could not remember anything I for sure thought he was tell Edgar a lie. I believe Claude was trying to make Edgar view his dad differently. Maybe some of the story is true, but I believe Claude messed with the details of it all.
I believe the story of Forte could be true. It is definitely a possibility. Claude' s soap carving is another hint that he may have been in in prison. They all think that the stray should be put down except Gar and Edgar, because it could be dangerous.
Claude views the stray as a dangerous outsider, much like his character. He wants Gar to administer a dose of strychnine in order to kill it, or it might disrupt or fight with the other dogs. Trudy agrees, but Gar and Edgar disagree. They decide to lure the dog in to see if they can catch it, and then they believe they will bring it to an animal rescue shelter. This shows their tolerance to the unknown, but they are willing to accept whatever will happen and take their chances.
The way Edgar's father treats the stray shows how compassionate he really is. He believes that dogs have the ability to think almost as if they were human and can figure stuff out on their own. Edgar's father doesn't trust other people to be able to treat a dog right so he doesn't want to take him away. To him dogs hold a special place in his heart and I don't feel he wants anything bad to happen to a dog ever again.
I do believe the story of Forte. I think Edgar's fathers love for dogs is partially because of the regret he has for what happened to Forte. Claude description of the story had so much detail and emotional to it that it couldn't be a lie. The only thing that would make the story more believable is if Claude had a scar on his leg from the dog biting him.
In any story, fog represents mystery or confusing. Spotting the stray in the fog helped to make the dog all the more a mystery. I think that Edgar is more driven to find and tame the dog because he first saw him in the fog.
I think that Claude wanted the stray down because it reminded him of himself and his own problems, and by killing it he was metaphorically "killing" the reminder of himself. Again, one of the most important points in this chapter is the dogs. They are the center of the family's attention.
Claude carves a turtle out of a bar of soap. This is significant because I feel as though it is tied to the symbol in the prologue. There is a turtle and two snakes. Is Claude a snake or the turtle?
Claude thinks they should take care of the stray, as in kill it. They don't know how the stray will react to being close to people or the other dogs, or if he'll train well. Although, Edgar doesn't not want to shoot the dog neither does Gar. So they let him be. However, Trudy is leaning more towards Claude's side on this one.
The story about Forte and Gar, a part of me believes it but not fully. I mean we don't really know if we can trust Claude, and Gar doesn't really remember anything about that night, so for all we know Claude could have shot the dog just as much as Gar supposedly did.
The soap carved into a turtle reminded me of the prologue and the sign of the snake and the turtle. Sometimes things like this are merely coincidences but I believe it is a symbol of karma. In the prologue, the sign with the snakes and the turtle appears before the medicine man uses the dog to demonstrate the effects of the potion he gives to the soldier. In this chapter, the soap carving of the turtle appears before the story of Gar and Forte is told. Even though Claude's credibility is questionable, because of these similarities when the turtle appears, I believe Claude's story is true.
Gar and Claude are two complete polar opposites when it comes to handling the stray dog. Gar was talking to Edgar about how the dog could make up its own mind as to where it wants to go, and what it’s going to do, while Claude on the other hand thinks that if it were to go anywhere near the barn it would try to fight with all the other dogs out there and he thinks that he should just shoot it before it does any harm to the other dogs. There are no promises that the stray dog would start any trouble, and that makes me start to not like Claude because he is not compassionate at all and he doesn’t care about the feelings of anyone else in this situation.
Every bit of the passage Edgar reads from The Jungle Book is very significant, especially pertaining to the stray. What Edgar thinks is that perhaps the stray wasn’t always a stray. It had a home and a place once among men and people, just as Bagheera once had. Maybe the stray was tired of being locked up and of being a “man’s plaything.” So, it broke free of its chains and left. And knowing what the stray had known about men, just like Bagheera, he became to be a terrible beast without man to restrain him, worse than the most treacherous thing unbound by humans.
I think the problem that arises from Claude and Edgar’s silent pact is that Edgar doesn’t feel right in betraying his parents, keeping the truth from them. And I don’t think Edgar enjoyed the idea of having to decide to forget the stray altogether or not. Edgar doesn’t want to forget about Forte so therefore he continues to feed him and clean the burrs from his fur.
In a story, fog typically represents mystery and the fact that not everything is as it seems. This scene is significant because it may be foreshadowing. The stray could represent a character that is not being completely open about who he is. If the dog would have been spotted in bright sunlight, there might not have been as much curiously surrounding it. It would have been written off like it was not a big deal. But the mystery surrounding the stray, such as whether it is a dog or wolf, or how dangerous the thing really is, cause Edgar and his father to be intrigued by it. After reading more of the novel, I think the stray has something to do with Claude because it seems very suspicious.
The way that Edgar's father treats the stray shows that he is compassionate and has a true love for animals. He wants to help the dog as much as he can. Claude, however, believes they should shoot it so it does not cause any trouble. I believe Trudy is leaning toward Claude's side because she does not want them to get blamed for any trouble that it causes. Gar and Edgar's belief about strays shows that they believe anything can be turned good again and they have hope for the dog. They do not want to just give up.
For some reason, I do not believe the story Claude tells Edgar. I can tell that Gar has a true love and respect for dogs. I can not see him killing his dog like that, even if he was drunk, I do not believe he would ever do that. I think Claude made up the story and convinced Gar that is was true since he could not remember what actually happened. Claude wasnted something to hang over Gar's head.
The story that Claude tells Oskar about forte shows why his father is treating the stay like he is. Oskar finds out that his dad shot forte. He refuses to shoot the stray because it reminds him of forte and it would be devastating to lose him again. Oskars mother is leaning towards shooting the stray because she knows it could hurt the puppies or the family and she isnt letting the memory of forte cloud her judgement.
Claude's view of the stray is that it's up to no good, so therefore they might as well get rid of it by killing it. Edgar's mother sides with Claude on this argument, but Edgar and Gar are a little more compassionate and want to give the stray a chance.
When Claude told Edgar the story about Forte I thought it was a little stretched, but then I thought maybe that's why he feels so strongly to keep the stray now. I feel like Gar is trying to make up for the time he shot his dog, and is choosing not to make the same mistake again.
The significance of Claude carving the turtle into the soap brings me back to the prologue with the turtle and the snakes. I think it's just a bad omen.
The silent pact between Edgar and Claude presents the problem that they can't fully communicate properly. Edgar can't express how he truly feels about what's going on and it's just going to lead to trouble.
Like Edgar, I do not believe Claude’s story about Gar and Forte. Claude tries to make Edgar view his father differently by claiming he used to use Forte to fight other dogs. Since Claude arrived, there has been tension between the two brothers based on a prior conflict between them. Claude appears to be sneaky and slimy and has had problems dealing with family relationships. When Claude is caught drinking in the barn by Edgar, he asks Edgar to keep this secret and reveals how to sneak back into the house quietly. Claude’s story is just another sneaky plot against Gar by attempting to slowly turn Edgar against his own father.
Edgar's father treats the stray as if it were a person or one of their own dogs, and doesn't want to harm it. Claude's view of the stray is he doesn't seem to care about it and just wants to shoot it. Edgar's father seems to care more for others then his brother does. I don't believe the story, it doesn't seem like something Edgar's father would do, seeing how he treats the dogs and the strays. I think Claude is just lying to Edgar to change his view of his father or to make him seem like he was bad in the past.
Edgar's father has a soft heart when it comes to strays because of his old dog Forte. Claude's view is completely different from Gar's because he does not want what happened to the other stray to happen again. Trudy agrees with Claude on this because of Gar's past with strays. I actually believe the story of Forte because Gar was drunk and during those years right after high school he could have been involved in things he regrets.
The fact that Edgar's father treats all the stray dogs with kindness shows that he respects all of the dogs and cares very deeply for them. He respects their thoughts on what to do and where to do it; he believes that the dogs are to be treated with the same respect as others want to be treated.
i don't believe the story about gar and forte because of the way he treats the stray.the turtle being carved into the soap i believe, is a foreshadowing of something with meaning since a turtle was mentioned earlier in the book. Fog symbolizes mystery or unknown. when the dog is found in the fog it could mean many things. The fog could foreshadow a character having a secret,the dog being connected to another character, or even something good happening.
I believe in the story of Forte. It tells us why he makes such a big effort to take care of the dogs now, because he's trying to make up for what he did. Which explakns wy he refuses to kill the stray. That moment changed him into the calm and peaceful man he is now. He hates what he did, how he was, and never wants to go back to what he used to be.
Fog, in a story, symbolizes and unclear meaning to something. Spotting the stray dog in the fog may foreshadow an event that Edgar will not completely understand at the time. If Edgar would have spotted the dog in broad daylight, the dog’s complete physical characteristics would have been revealed.
Edgar’s father wants to save the stray by guiding it to come to the kennel on its own. Gar has a caring personality towards the dogs and is very rational with his decision. However, Claude feels the opposite. Claude (and unfortunately Trudy) wants to get rid of the dog instead of saving it.
The soap carving could be connected with the two snakes and the turtle in the prologue. Which character is resembled from the soap carving isn't clear; however, from what I have seen from most fictional villains is a tendency to (unless they are extremely egotistical) make some sort of visual of the prey and then destroy it. The story of Forte is a very interesting one (the fact that Edgar wants to name the new stray after Forte is intriguing to me) and is very emotionally driven. I like and believe the story of Forte, it makes sense and explains why the dad is so against shooting an animal. In regards to the truthfulness of the story, a drunken man telling a story would probably be more accurate than a sober one who would lie and make things up on the spot. Edgar does not believe it because the story is about his own dad, and people can change drastically over the years, however Edgar is only viewing his dad as what he is today instead of what was/could have been in the past (which is understandable). Hearing a story about someone you have known your entire life and hearing them take the complete opposite actions of what you know/have seen them do from the past can be a very hard pill to swallow.
Edgar's father treats the stray as though it was one of his other dogs. It shows that he is willing to care for anyone/anything in a heartbeat. Claude's view on the stray is to shoot it. He believes it will do nothing but bring prtheoblems. I believe Trudy is more towards Claude's side because she doesn't any issues the dog could bring to her family.
When Claude carved a turtle, it reminded of the prologue. It's as though he is the snake biting the turtle.
Fog usually represents eeriness and evil and foreshadows a terrible event. The fog in this story comes about around the same time Claude comes about. Thus, in my opinion the tendrils of fog are pointing to Claude as the antagonist of the story.
Edgar's father tends to treat strays with compassion, care, and with the best interest of the stray as well as the Sawtelle's in his mind. Thus, this shows that Edgar's father is a caring man with his priorities in line. He knows it is wrong to kill the strays and he knows the strays would have a negative effect on the Sawtelle dogs so he takes the strays to a new territory where the strays can run free and live happily on their own. Overall, Edgar's father seems to know what he is doing.
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