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This chapter reminded me of
this cheesy television show,
Quantum Leap. The premise of the show was that the handsome lead character would be sent back and forth in time in order to help with one situation or another. Until the situation was resolved, he was stuck wherever he landed...but one of the main differences between the show and the novel is that in the show, he could become other people...so he might be a woman, or he might be an old man, or he might be African American...that would be even tougher than Billy Pilgrim trying to figure out what age he was. It's much easier to act like yourself, no matter what age.
I love the phrase "unstuck in time," if for no other reason than it indicates that we are all currently stuck in time. Interesting to think about.
When relating Billy's situation, the narrator says, "He says." Does this mean that Billy Pilgrim is unreliable to the narrator? If the narrator doesn't trust the story, should we?
Billy Pilgrim's father dies in a hunting accident while Billy is away at war...Billy's wife dies from a random carbon monoxide accident after Billy survives a tragic airplane crash as the only survivor. Irony? What do you make of these odd coincidences?
What is significant about Billy's profession?
OK...so you're in New York, you're up late, and you're listening to talk radio. A man calls in and tells a story about being abducted by aliens, being put on display in a zoo, and being forced to breed with a former starlet with the unlikely name of Montana Wildhack...what is your reaction? What do you think of Billy's story?
So according to the Tralfamadorians, when someone dies, they are still alive in the past. All moments -- past, present, future -- have always existed and will always continue to exist. What do you think of this interesting theory? Is it plausible?
We finally find out the source of "so it goes." Does it change the way you hear that phrase?
[Note: Gotta love an author who uses the word "flibbertigibbet."]
vox humana and vox celeste...meanings?
Four survive the Battle of the Bulge: 2 scouts, 1 tank gunner, and 1 chaplain's assistant. Is there any significance to their jobs?
Everyone on the gun crew was killed except for Weary...sound familiar?
A Spanish thumbscrew, in case you were wondering...
Quantum Leap. The premise of the show was that the handsome lead character would be sent back and forth in time in order to help with one situation or another. Until the situation was resolved, he was stuck wherever he landed...but one of the main differences between the show and the novel is that in the show, he could become other people...so he might be a woman, or he might be an old man, or he might be African American...that would be even tougher than Billy Pilgrim trying to figure out what age he was. It's much easier to act like yourself, no matter what age.
I love the phrase "unstuck in time," if for no other reason than it indicates that we are all currently stuck in time. Interesting to think about.
When relating Billy's situation, the narrator says, "He says." Does this mean that Billy Pilgrim is unreliable to the narrator? If the narrator doesn't trust the story, should we?
Billy Pilgrim's father dies in a hunting accident while Billy is away at war...Billy's wife dies from a random carbon monoxide accident after Billy survives a tragic airplane crash as the only survivor. Irony? What do you make of these odd coincidences?
What is significant about Billy's profession?
OK...so you're in New York, you're up late, and you're listening to talk radio. A man calls in and tells a story about being abducted by aliens, being put on display in a zoo, and being forced to breed with a former starlet with the unlikely name of Montana Wildhack...what is your reaction? What do you think of Billy's story?
So according to the Tralfamadorians, when someone dies, they are still alive in the past. All moments -- past, present, future -- have always existed and will always continue to exist. What do you think of this interesting theory? Is it plausible?
We finally find out the source of "so it goes." Does it change the way you hear that phrase?
[Note: Gotta love an author who uses the word "flibbertigibbet."]
vox humana and vox celeste...meanings?
Four survive the Battle of the Bulge: 2 scouts, 1 tank gunner, and 1 chaplain's assistant. Is there any significance to their jobs?
Everyone on the gun crew was killed except for Weary...sound familiar?
A Spanish thumbscrew, in case you were wondering...
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What does Weary's version of the war tell you about Weary as a character?
Why did Billy resent being rescued from the bottom of the pool?
We get the story of Private Slovik, the only American soldier shot for cowardice since the Civil War. Why are we told this story?
When Billy is unstuck in time, why does he visit his only infidelity? Is there a method to the madness of this time travel?
The chapter ends with the surreal scene of Weary beating Pilgrim while Germans watch in wonder...what does the scene suggest to you about the line between fantasy and reality?
106 comments:
The Tralfamadorian belief that when someone dies they are still alive in the past is a unique take on beliefs that we simply take for granted. It is actually quite plausible. When someone dies, they as a person die—the memories of that person do not. For example, when someone’s parent dies, they don’t forget the years of love, support, and nurture they were given, it’s actually quite the opposite—they cherish them. Therefore, one could make the connection that the Tralfamadorian belief that “All moments—past, present, future—have always existed and will always continue to exist,” is another form of our concept of cherishing the memories that we have and working diligently to make many more, because one just never knows what tomorrow may bring.
If I was hearing Billy’s story over the radio I would have laughed the whole time. Nothing about his story seems believable. In fact, everything about his story is absurd. As a culture, we’ve dismissed anyone who has talked about alien abductions. If I had heard his story I would have thought he was crazy. I would have thought he was just another crackpot, and would have completely dismissed his story.
It was cool to finally figure out why the phrase "So it goes" was so commonly used. I have a new perspective on that phrase after he explained it. He always uses it after he talks about death and it makes sense now. "So it goes" was said by the Tralfmadorians about the dead. He explained that they said it because when a person dies, it is only that person that is dead, not their past nor the memories you have with them. They believe that it is silly to cry at funerals because that person still lives in your memories. The repeated phrase makes so much more sense now. He is simply stating that that person died and there was nothing he could have done to stop it, so why sit and stress about it when he still has all of his memories with that person? Death is a part of life (as funny as that sounds) and he embraces that.
I love the ideas behind Billy's stories. It's simply entertaining to think about the fourth dimension that is time. The fact that we're stuck on a continuous path that is time where we see life in death is undeniable. The idea that we are all alive, but in the past and future only some of us are. The theory is just incredible to think about. To disagree with Sam, if I were to hear the story on the radio I would be intrigued. Yes our society has learned to disregard alien stories, but the ideas behind it are quite different and worth listening to.
If I heard a story like that on the radio while I was driving I would probably thing that the person was a complete lunatic, but I would continue to listen just for entertainment. Everyone needs a good story every once in a while, it doesn’t have to be worth anything to you mentally just something to keep you busy for a while. Seriously though who would really believe a story like that, the more he goes on about it the crazier he seems as well as the more unbelievable the story gets.
While most of us become obsessed with TV shows, movies, video games, books, actors etc, Weary has a rather weird obsession with torture. Most of us don’t find torture to be acceptable or enjoyable to watch (well at least I hope you don’t enjoy people being tortured). Of all the things to be fascinated with he had to pick torture, what a sick guy. Really he has to find the Iron Maiden fascinating, Weary my dear sir you need to find a different hobby that doesn’t end with people dying or seriously injured.
“Billy Pilgrim has come unstuck in time. Billy has gone to sleep a senile widower and awakened on his wedding day. He has walked through a door in 1955 and come out another one in 1941. He has gone back through the door to see himself in 1963. He has seen his birth and death many times, he says, and pays random visits to all the events in between” (23). With this quote, the reader meets Billy Pilgrim, and all I have to say is “Oh Billy…” Billy, for all intents and purposes, is a time traveler in his own mind. He can travel to any past memory, or any created future as well. It seems he is absolutely insane, but is this really so? Not saying his whole spiel about being abducted is true, but in a way, the crazy time-jumping is plausible. Essentially, Billy is suffering from tragic flashbacks which include memories of hardship, pain, and abuse. He saw things that no one should ever see, and learned pretty quickly the world can be a brutal, terrible place. Thus, this “time-jumping” can be better diagnosed as Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD). With his PTSD, come hallucinations, trouble sleeping, as well as flashbacks, which contribute to all of Billy’s problems such as falling asleep at work and the aliens. In conclusion, Billy is not right in the head, but all of his stories can be derived from a source, and their origin makes sense of their birth.
I do not like Billy’s stories at all. To be honest I think they are quite trivial and repetitive. His stories seem completely made up, fake, and not believable. It shows how out there he is as a person. Deceptive, and creepy as he is, I would’ve zoned out right away. But there is substantial evidence that there are some kinds of alien life forms out there. I guess you never know, but I would’ve chosen to not listen. If you want something like this go listen to some Art Bell.
I think if what Billy says about being abducted by aliens and being unstuck in time were true in the story, it would diminish the message that I'm getting. To put the message simply would be war screws you up. If Billy truly is being abducted and becoming unstuck in time, then that can't be blamed on the stress of war. If it's all really a delusion, then I agree with Gwen and it's PTSD. While I would enjoy a story about time jumping and alien abductions, it has no place in the reality of this story. However, it fits perfectly in Billy's mind. Also, to Billy's tale on the radio, I would not immediately write him off as crazy. What about creative? How could someone know that it wasn't just a story or that it wasn't just a man searching for some public attention? To immediately label someone as crazy for potentially just being creative is harmful. But as the reader, we know that it wasn't any of those things. It was what Billy believed to be true.
As far as Billy's story of the aliens is concerned, I believe he is simply hallucinating due to everything that happened during the war. aliens that time travel aren't plausible in this setting. I would also like to take some time to discuss Weary. While there is nothing wrong with having a hobby or being fascinated with a certain subject, Weary's fascination with torture seems very out of place. He doesn't seem like the sort of person you would trust to defend your country. I hope to gain more insight as to why he is so obsessed with torture.
The Tralfamadorian perception of time is a fascinating theory. There is a lot of truth behind it -- when someone dies, they continue to live in the memories of his or her loved ones, so they're never truly gone. When I first read that part of the book, I thought that I would love to see time as the Tralfamadorians do. Now, I see that this method of thinking is flawed. While the Tralfamadorians pity humans for not being able to see the fourth dimension, I pity them for missing out on a big part of our humanity: emotions. In Tralfamadore, death is not mourned because they can still see the parts of time in which that person is alive. Tralfamadorians do not have to feel the pain of losing someone they love, which lessens the importance of that person's life. On Earth, we learn to love one another endlessly and to cherish the memories we share with each other. We learn to grieve when one of our own dies and we learn how to cope afterwards. We grow from our emotions, and I can't imagine Tralfamadorians would do the same. When life is difficult for them, they can still see all the other moments when it is not. Though that life sounds ideal, it negates everything we have come to know as humans.
Meghan Gore
The method of the maddes of Billy Pilgrim and time travel is that instead of seeing just moments of his life, we see his life coming together as a whole and how it affected the rest of his life. He visits those moments because he learned something about life and himself.
The theory of past, present, and future existing at the same time is a strange thought. However I disagree that this is possible. If the Tralfamadorians are able to see a person’s life all at once, there still has to be a beginning and end to the person’s life. So there are borders to the picture of a person’s life. As for the character Roland Weary, Weary is a lonely person filled with anger. Weary sees the war as way to escape his lonely life in Pittsburgh, but finds out that he is still being ditched by people. Weary tries to imagine that people are his friends. For example he dreams up the thought of him and the two scouts as the three musketeers.
I think the reason Billy resented being rescued from the bottom of the pool is that the moment was built up. His father carried him to the pool and dropped him in. Billy compared it to an execution. So maybe he had prepared himself to die only to suffer and be saved. Or, Billy also mentions that there was beautiful music playing. Maybe Billy thought that the music was an afterlife of sorts or at least a promise of something better and it was ripped away from him before he had the chance to find out.
The concept of time is kinda neat. I think the phrase "unstuck in time" was pretty clever. As (current) humans, we have no way to travel how Billy does. There is only now, and time does not wait for anyone. Everything keeps going and there is no way to physically go back and forth. We're totally, 100% stuck. All we have are memories. But wouldn't it be cool to relive the past or travel to the future just so you could know what happens? Although even the narrator apparently finds Billy unreliable, if this entire thing were possible, I don't think anyone would complain as long as they had control over being "unstuck in time."
Weary's eye for violence leaves a pretty gruesome image. I think including his obsession with it is how Vonnegut outlines Weary's character - his past, family life, and mental stability. It partly foreshadows why Weary would beat him up at the end of the chapter. However, the strong descriptions were a little overboard (okay, I know that's what makes a book, but still). I think there is a deeper part of Weary's character/psychological issues. Yeah, he gets abandoned, which makes him angry. He then turns to violence. But his love of different types of TORTURES makes me a little uneasy. It's kinda weird to be honest. It's one thing to be a bully and another to be so psychotic. I don't think I will miss him...
In response to the phrase "unstuck in time," I do believe we are stuck in time. Humans are the only animals that keep track of time, and are therefore bound to time. No matter where you go, there is a clock, a calendar, or some reference to time. The constant timekeeping has ultimately led humans to fear the end of time which is clearly seen in the obsession humans have of predicting the end of the world. There are also reminders that time is fleeting such as the phrases "time flies", "you only live once", and "in the blink of an eye". No other animal is so consciously aware of time and as Mitch Albom put it, "man alone suffers a paralyzing fear that no other creature endures. A fear of time running out." I agree with Megan that if humans were able to be "unstuck in time" like Billy Pilgrim, there would be few complaints.
The theory of the Tralfamadorians that people who die are still alive in the past is intriguing. I think there is truth in the theory because pictures are a chance to look into the past and remember significant moments and can bring people back life if only for a short while. When people die, there are often photos highlighting their life and those pictures are a chance to recall favorite or forgotten memories. I think the theory that people who have died are alive in the past is similar to the saying that people who have passed are alive in the memories of their loved ones. It would be depressing if after a person died all memories and pictures of that person ceased to exist, but they don't. There are ways that people who may have died are alive in the past, such as pictures and memories, and that is how I think the Tralfamadorian theory can be applied realistically to our lives.
I think Billy resents getting scooped up from the pool because he wants freedom. His life, ever since he was with his father, has been stripped of its freedom. His dad would pressure him and set high standards. WWII took everything he knew. Maybe drowning in that pool could have given him freedom. Maybe his death is the only solace he will ever get.
Maybe the narrator and Billy Pilgrim are related. Maybe the narrator knew Billy once from the war, and wants to tell his story.
Also, if I were to hear the radio message about the alien abduction, I would like to believe it, but I would find it a great work of fiction and forget about it.
Listening to Billy's crazy stories over the radio would have had me really intrigued. Alien stories really interest me. But I think that Billy's stories are completely made up. They are way too over the top and fake. He is just trying to make his life sound much more interesting and he likes to tell stories. I think that everyone would think he is out of his mind and lying. His stories show how unique and different of a person he is than what a "normal" person would be.
I think that the Tralfamadorians idea that someone continues to live on even after they “die” is very interesting. It reminded me of something I read in a different book. A person lives on in others’ memories. Therefore, they don’t truly die until the last person who remembered them is dead. So people in history such as Cleopatra and Abraham Lincoln end up living longer than that one guys neighbor who lived a couple hundred years ago. I disagree with the Tralfamadorians idea that someone is always alive because death is still death. But I agree that they can continue to exist through memories.
If I heard Billy come on the radio talking about being abducted by aliens, I would have stopped and listened to the man. I would find his crazy stories interesting, but I would have thought Billy was crazy himself and it was all made up. Knowing Billy was in an airplane crash and also in the war gives me the idea he has serious head injuries that cause false illusions. These stories also show how unique and interesting Billy and his life seems to be, which makes me want to read more and hear more stories from him.
Weary seems to have a strange fascination with torture that I believe steams from being ditched and ignored as a child. He was always on his own which built up much anger in him as it was shown when he would later beat up Billy in the end of the chapter just after what he thought were his friends ditched him. Weary's dad collected these strange torture devices so they have been around him practically his entire life. I can imagine Weary visualizing using these torture devices on some of the people that seem to have ditched him. He also might have a fascination with these objects so he can show them off and maybe fear people into being his friend. Weary is not the kind of person I would imagine fighting for our country because he is so full of anger at people in his own country.
If I had heard Billy's stories on the radio, I'd pay full attention. The way he talks about it makes it seem real, even though he's probably delusional it still makes an interesting story and outlook on life. Billy probably connects to the Tralfamadorians because they are desensitized to death, which usually happens to people in war because they're around it so much. Since Billy can time travel and believes everything is happening at the same time - past, present and future - I think his profession of Optometry makes sense. Since he believes everything is happening at the same time, it's almost like he sees everything going on. Weary is kind of creepy. I understand being interested in torture devices, but he's just so into it. It's weird. But now that I know what an Iron Maiden actually is that makes Iron Maiden so much more metal.
I think the Tralfamadorians’ belief that people will continue to exist in the past and future once they die is kind of sad. Yes, they get to pretty much live forever, existing alongside the present time, but is living forever really something to yearn for? When a human dies, they are remembered fiercely. Their loved ones grieve for years and years until finally they have accepted the death. When a Tralfamadorian dies, their life is not cherished. They are not revered because everyone knows they are still alive somewhere else in a different time. John Green states in a book: “Oblivion is inevitable.” He is talking about humans being forgotten in time if they have not lived great enough lives that deserve to be remembered throughout history, and I believe this is true. I also believe, however, that the Tralfamoadorian belief about death leads to faster oblivion. If a family member knows their loved one is healthy, alive, and well, why worry? Why grieve? Why remember their lives at all when they will just live more?
If I were to hear a story like that on late night radio I would think it was some funny story they put on there as a joke. But just because I wouldn't believe it doesn't mean everyone else would think the same. It reminds me of the mass hysteria caused by a late night reading of an adaptation of the book "War of the Worlds" on the radio in 1938. Many people listening believed it was real and that the world was really under attack by martians. So it is very likely that someone out there would have believed Billy's story about being abducted by aliens and such. Then they would freak out, thinking they would be abducted too. I thought it was funny that he managed to get his story on the radio and actually broadcasted out to the listeners. I also find the name Montana Wildhack fairly amusing.
To start off, Billy is an optometrist, or to simplify it, an eye doctor. I find this a little amusing because Billy is someone who helps others, who once saw the world as a blurry mess, to see everything crystal clear. Yet, Billy cannot see clearly himself, in the figurative sense. He is a man made up of disturbing war memories that have left him broken and blurry in ways past healing. So it goes.
Now, I find the Tralfamadorians theory quite an interesting one, and partly true. I say this because in a way, when someone dies, they are still alive in the memories of those who loved them. I know its cliché, but it’s true. The memories that people remember represent all the moments of the deceased’s life. So in that way, they’re still alive in the past because they’re remembered in the present. However, depending on one’s beliefs, all moments –past, present, future - could exist, or it could not. Some believe that our life is mapped out for us, and others believe that they alone are in control. So yes, in a way the Tralfamadorians theory is true but they are also imaginations of one crazy man’s mind, so who can really judge?
When the narrator states "He says", it makes me feel as though Billy's stories are so bizarre and unlike anything the narrator has probably heard, that it makes it hard for him to believe them. However, this repeated statement could also be foreshadowing an event where Billy's word is unreliable. As for my opinion on Billy's story of the Tralfamadorians, I find it all rather silly and definitely out of the "norm" for this time period. I believe that Tralfamadore could possibly be a figment of Billy's imagination. He tends to zone off into different eras, so why couldn't this be a future era that he foresees?
Billy resents being rescued from the bottom of the pool, because after being introduced to the Tralfamadorian he views death and suffering in a different light. He thinks that when people die, they are suffering in that moment, but have plenty of other moments in which they live pain-free. As a result of this view, he thought that if he hadn't been rescued, that he would still have plenty of other moments to enjoy within his life. At the end of this chapter, Weary was beating Pilgrim while German soldiers watched from atop the river bank. Billy was laughing as he was being beaten, and this confused the Germans as they watched in awe. I believe that he was laughing because his views of reality were so distorted that he could not tell if this instance was really happening.
Although Weary and Billy are very different characters they do have something in common; they both are the only ones to survive. Billy is the only survivor of the plane crash, and Weary is the only one on the gun crew to live. It also seems like everyone else dies around them. Weary's whole gun crew died. Billy’s wife dies from carbon monoxide poisoning, his father dies from a hunting accident, all the people on the plane die around him, and in the war he is surrounded by soldiers dying and yet he, with no weapons to protect himself, lives on. It seems almost cruel. Some might say that they are lucky to have lived, but dealing with so much grief can’t be easy. If I were in their shoes I don’t know if I’d be able to handle it.
My reaction would be to keep listening because it sounds interesting. I wouldn't believe any of it though because he sounds crazy, but it would be entertaining to listen to. I also would have thought that Billy was just making all of this up to get attention on the radio or again because he was crazy. After hearing his story I would understand that he might have serious head injuries from his plane crash and from being in the war. These possible head injuries could lead him to believe that aliens really did abduct him and there are false illusions that he saw aliens and that they made him do all the stuff that he described. But by hearing all of this it makes Billy look more interesting and makes me want to keep reading about him.
The irony of Billy's parents' deaths is that Billy was at war, where men die. His parents die on domestic soil, not fighting for freedom or justice. Billy, instead, is at war, seeing all of these tragic acts of terror, and misses his home.
It's also ironic because Billy does not really have a will to live, yet he keeps on living. I don't know how he feels about that.
I don't think the narrator sees Billy as unreliable, he merely just emphasizes that this is a story told from Billy's perspective. The readers are meant to experience the drowning in self-delusion just as Billy is. So although the narrator may scoff at the absurdity with "He says", this is Billy's only reality. We should trust in his thoughts and experiences; but as an observer, we also need to relate said thought processes with events in Billy's life. The reason we are thrown through different points of of his lifetime, is in order to understand why Billy thinks and acts the way he does.
Private Slovik, "a born loser", a thief, and a coward; they say. Interestingly enough, before execution Slovik stated "They just need to make an example out of somebody and I'm it because I'm an ex-con. I used to steal things when I was a kid, and that's what they are shooting me for. They're shooting me for the bread and chewing gum I stole when I was 12 years old." He was someone who was punished for fearing. I believe we are told this story to show how even basic human instincts are forced to be erased during war. A soldier should die before they run; and if they do run, they'll die anyway.
I think the Tralfamadorians' concept of death is intriguing. It's true that moments and memories will always exist, but do they exist in their own space? If a person dies do they relive certain moments forever or can they jump through time like Billy is able to do? How can a moment from age 10 exist with a moment from age 20 unless there is more than one copy of a person? What if locations of moments overlap? Do the moments of one person's life coexist with another's? It's contradictory how Tralfamadorians say "so it goes.." when a person dies as though times goes on, but they believe that moments exist forever like time is an unmoving force.
I thought it was ironic how Billy Pilgrim time hopped to when his mother was in the hospital, dying, and she asks him, "How did I get so old?" Here is Billy, never really going through the process of aging, and his mother, on her death bed wondering where the time went.
Billy's story is completely absurd, we all know it can't be true. However, I believe Vonnegut has a deeper message behind it. War puts soldiers through many hardships that no human should ever have to encounter during their lifetime. War messes with you mentally, physically, and emotionally. I think that is what Vonnegut was saying by putting that story in the novel. In this case, Billy is having mental problems. The war messed with his head so bad that he honestly thinks he was abducted by aliens- which sounds crazy to a normal person. The moral of the story is that once you go into war, you will not come out as an unchanged person.
By being "unstuck in time" Billy can travel through time without any control over where he goes. During one account of Billy going back into the past, he travels to the time when he was a little boy and his father was teaching him how to swim. I believe Billy resents being rescued from the bottom of the pool because he knew that if he would have dies then, he wouldn't have ever had to go to war and deal with what he is dealing with now. I think that Billy sounds absurd talking about his stories and about Tralfamadore.
When Weary talks of torture it reminds of the show Prison Break. Although I’ve only seen the first few episodes, but the men in that show have multiple types devices to inflict torture on one another. One man had a corkscrew knife of some sort that will gut a person, but won’t kill him. He then gets infected and dies slowly and painfully. Another man chopped a man’s toe off with a pair of hedge clippers. Seeing this made cringe the same way reading about Weary’s different torture instruments made me cringe. Just the way Weary spoke about his triangular blade and using it to inflict pain sent chills down my spine.
When Weary talks of torture it reminds of the show Prison Break. Although I’ve only seen the first few episodes, but the men in that show have multiple types devices to inflict torture on one another. One man had a corkscrew knife of some sort that will gut a person, but won’t kill him. He then gets infected and dies slowly and painfully. Another man chopped a man’s toe off with a pair of hedge clippers. Seeing this made cringe the same way reading about Weary’s different torture instruments made me cringe. Just the way Weary spoke about his triangular blade and using it to inflict pain sent chills down my spine.
Had I have heard Billy's story on the radio, I would have thought he was mental. That's not what a sane person does. But, it think he meant something else by it. It was a way he could rationalize things after the war. It was how he had felt with the deaths he had encountered. After traumatic experiences, such as war, many people develop PTSD. With this are hallucinations, which would explain the time travel with the aliens. Also, I feel like this gives more insite to the phrase, "So it goes." It shows that he's not being cruel or uncaring when he uses it after everyone dies, but that it's how he deals with it. He deals with it with the idea that the person is still alive in the past, and the idea of time is already set, and we're just moving along the path. This reminds me of the crayon lines on the wallpaper when Vonnegut was planing the book.
I find Billy's predicament interesting. I'm not sure if I quite believe him yet, but I feel like his daughter isn't quite doing the right thing about it. She seems to think that bullying him out of whatever he believes will work. Also, I never saw the correlation between his job and his experience until reading this post. Billy is an optometrist, or an eye doctor. They help their patients see better. That is also what Billy is trying to do with his letters and his life. He's trying to help people see his truth about time and the human experience.
Billy is an optometrist for a living, which means he is an eye doctor. This is significant because he can see things that other people can not see. He can travel back in time on a whole other dimension which nobody else can do. I found it interesting how Weary being a lone survivor of his gun crew sounds like Billy being the only survivor in his plane crash. I still find the phrase "So it goes" annoying. I read it a little too often for my liking.
If I was listening to the radio and heard someone tell this story, I wouldn't believe it for a second. In fact, I may laugh in their face. In today's society, time travel is something everyone wants to do, but that no one has been able to figure out. Extra terrestrial life is also something that is questioned. I think that this chapter gave me a more open mind on these ideas, but it was not a believable story. The way he talked and wrote and made things up makes me believe that he really is senile.
Billy's radio story about the aliens was quite interesting! It might have even been believable back then. He must have put a lot of thought into it before making his story public.
Perhaps my reaction would have been that I believed him. I would have shared his story to people whom I think would care to hear. His story would have made me believe that aliens really do exist and that they have visited Earth so why wouldn't they visit again?
If I were to hear Billy’s story over the radio I would have been a skeptic.in todays society everyone craves attention, and what is a better way then claiming you have been abducted by aliens.These are the kind of stories are those “what happened next” kind of stories; it doesnt matter if you believe it or not you just want to know what the outcome was. Do not get me wrong, I believe that somewhere they’re are other intelligent life forms, but I still think Billy’s story is absurd. Although I would not believe these stories to be true, I do find them to be quite entertaining and creative.
It seemed to me Billy being an optometrist seemed to be pretty significant with his "time traveling." He saw and experienced different parts of his life, and jumped around to completely different years. He got to see and relive different parts of his life, even though he’d already experienced some of them. After seeing the photos of the torture devices Weary talked about, I am truly disturbed by him…. they look so painful! I also couldn’t help but laugh during the description of the picture Weary had. Although they tried to justify it by saying it was fine art, it would be obvious to anyone else that it was taken for other purposes. The meaning of “Vox Humana” in English is “The Human Voice is” and “Vox Celeste” means “The Voice of the Heavenly Places.” Billy played these hymns even though the other soldiers resented the idea of God.
I like the phrase "unstuck in time". I interpret it a different way than it was told, though. I see us all as stuck in time because we ourselves decide what time is and we are the only creatures that actually use it.
When it comes to the Tralfamadorian's theory when someone dies they are still alive in the past and saying all moments have always existed and will always continue to exist makes some sense to me. There is a quote that says, "You don't have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body." In this sense, the idea that when someone dies they are still alive makes sense. Their living body is gone, but I don't believe a whole person can just go away. They exist in all the past moments and in memories.
I think his story is interesting. From reading a few comments I see that others say he's crazy, that it's unbelievable. But what's so unbelievable about it? It's not normal, sure, but who are we to say it's completely incorrect? In my eyes, in my mind, I do not think we are the only force of life in this universe at all. There has got to be more. And to me aliens seem just dandy. They could definitely be a thing.Nowadays we label people as mentally unstable, or crazy and put them away if they see things differently. Maybe it's untrue, and maybe they're absolutely nuts, but it's such a shame that we shut down people who are different. And if they aren't true, that sucks. Oh well. At least give him some credit for being so creative, yes?
I loved "So it goes" from the beginning, and I still love it now. Even though it came from the Tralfamadorians, the phrase nonetheless places emphasis in just the right moments. Also, it might just be me, but its' back-story is perfect. It's what Tralfamadorians say about dead people, who are actually very much alive in their past, according to Pilgrim. By the way, may I take the time to say Billy's last name is fitting? He is one of the first to be abducted and taken to a new world. Coincidence?
Anyways, the Tralfamadorians' theory of time and life is surely an interesting one. I'm not sure if it's necessarily plausible, but understandable. The concept that time is not as linear as we, humans, believe it to be is reasonable. We have been wrong in many other instances; there is a chance that we don't see things as alien races do. It's not impossible, but perhaps improbable.
Over the course of chapter two, Billy has many oddball tales to tell. When the narrator states that Billy says, as if with uncertainty, I started to believe that Billy’s stories may have been sugar coated from what they actually were. From the stories Billy tells us about his family, it sounds as if someone is out to kill Billy, or he just has extremely bad luck. Just as the many weird stories Billy has told, he tops it off with a talk show he listened to. The guy calling in on the show was either a nut, or Billy sugarcoated that story as good as the rest. Lastly, I believe that the theory of the Tralfamadorians is very plausible. What happened has happened, and will always stay that way, and even though it may not be going on in the present, it is going on in the past.
So going off of the comment about being in New York, up late, listening to the talk radio, and hearing the story that Billy Pilgrim told, I decided to reflect on what I would think of such an incident. My reaction is that Billy is some crazy man because his story is so far-fetched and ridiculous. First of all, I don't believe that aliens exist, so that in itself makes me scoff at his story. Next, the part about being forced to breed with "Montana Wildhack" sounds absolutely absurd and disgusting. I think that Billy's story is a lie. If I knew that he was a veteran of World War 2 and all of the tragedy that he experienced, I would say he was suffering from PTSD or hallucinations. It is such a wild story that is told by somebody who has been through so much that I would just label him as crazy! I guess overall I would think that he was calling in for the attention and publicity that such a story would get someone.
If I were to have heard Billy's story over the radio I might have thought he was crazy. To be honest, his story fits into the stereotypical nature and culture of UFO sightings in the United States around that time period. But, for whatever reason, in the novel I believe Billy's story and think he is telling the truth.
I found it kind of interesting that after hearing Billy's abduction story we learn the purpose of "so it goes", and that Vonnegut in the first chapter uses the phrase when Billy is the one who was allegedly abducted.
Pg. 27 I can quickly infer how intrigued Billy is with his story on the whole alien situation. What I mean is as Billy is typing away the second article for the newspaper down in his rumpus room when the rumpus room is only 50 degrees. Billy is not dressed in warm attire and when he should be cold is not merely because he is so caught up in his writing. Pg. 33 just a quick thought on how much of a loon Billy is after letting the marksmen try to take another shot at him. After every tragic topic (especially death) concludes with "so it goes". Why? Pg.45 Billy is reliving his life time hoping, why in 1965 did Vonnegut feel the need to tell us the readers that Billy's sons baseball coach was unmarried?
If I heard a story like this on the radio I would think that either the person was very good at writing fictional stories or that they were psycho. The story is extremely unrealistic. My first thought is why? Why did someone think up this insane story? Do they actually think this happened or again are they just very creative. I think Billy's story is very interesting but I also think it is very out there.
Personally, I feel like Billy's story could have been taken two different ways. First, there is the route that I would take, along with many others, which would be to sit back and laugh at the story in disbelief. I honestly would not believe this happened, but would see it more as a cry for attention. And attention would be being served, but not in a positive way or good light. He would be dubbed as "insane". The second route, however, would be people believing him. A case of mass-hysteria could have broken out, like many other times in history. (ex: The misinterpreted radio broadcast of War of the Worlds which let to rioting and what seemed to be an apparent alien attack. The scene was similar to the one described in the novel because of all the chaos) People may have believed him just because they wanted something to believe in.
If I was in New York and I heard that story, being the rational person I am, I would think that this man is a lunatic and needs to find some professional help. The geek in me would then automatically think of the old 60’s Planet of the Apes with Charlton Heston because it’s nearly the same story. It would be incredibly entertaining to hear his wild story though, and if he wasn't losing his mind I would totally tune in for the next broadcast because he’s most definitely a compulsive liar then, and their stories get more elaborate and unbelievable every minute. I would, without a doubt, be a fan of Billy and his aliens from Tralfamadoria.
An Optometrist that can see into the past and future... what more could you want?! Billy's profession as a doctor who helps people see is quite fitting for a person who has spent his future with peaceful aliens who are able to see the entirety of time all at once, there isn't a human more qualified for a job as such. I would sure say that Vonnegut has a special place in his heart for survivor's guilt. Billy survives a plane crash that no one else does, and Weary was the sole remaining person from his gun crew. It was a match made in heaven. Weary is definitely suffering from some stress of the war and creates this heroic story of his time in Germany that far surpasses reality. It is as if he is rationalizing the death of his gun crew, he thinks that maybe if people believe this far-fetched epic saga of his amazing feats during the war, they would overlook the slaughter that he abstained from.
Both vox humana and vox celeste are parts of the little black organ Billy played while he was a chaplains assistant in South Carolina. Vox humana is an organ reed stop producing tones imitative of the human voice (a reed stop is an organ stop with the tone of a reed instrument). Vox celeste is an organ stop producing a gentle tremolo effect (an organ stop is a graduated set of organ pipes of like tone quality). Being a chaplains assistant is what gets Billy involved in the war but not the actual fighting. After his father's death he gets moved to Luxembourg but never meets the chaplain he is to assist instead he eventually meets "the three musketeers" and a whole lot of trouble.
Definitions courtesy of www.audioenglish.org
If I was in New York at the time and heard the story of a man abducted by aliens I probably would have immediately dismissed the story from being true in any way but it would still interest me. Crazy stories like that no matter how completely irrational and fictitious are always the coolest to hear. Even though I would have known he was a nutcase I would have still tried to imagine what it would be like if he wasn't lying. How scary and surreal that experience would be if it were true. I think that's why science fiction is so popular in today's culture, we all know its not real, but wouldn't it be incredible if it was.
I think the narrator's use of "He says" is his way of retelling the story exactly how Billy experiences it. The narrator doesn't want to muddle the stories with his own opinions or the hard facts of the situation. The fact that Vonnegut wrote the book without a strict chronological timeline lends credence to the theory. The whole point of the novel is to make the reader experience, really feel the war. And as Vonnegut has stated, the war was chaos and confusion. While the things Billy tells us may not be the absolute truth, they are how he recalls it, how the war made him experience it.
If I had heard Billy's story on the radio, I probably would have changed the channel. It would have sounded absolutely ludicrous, and I would have written it off as some crazy who needs to be locked up in a mental facility. As things stand, I may not have been too far off with my assumption. Billy does need professional help, and not just because of his delusional rantings. I believe he never came to terms with the war and the things he saw while serving. While I don't consider myself qualified to judge those things, seeing as how I've never been in war, but from what I can see, the horrific details of the war have been festering in Billy's mind for years, and are now spilling over.
If I were to hear Billy speaking over the radio, I would think it sort of sad, actually. I would think he was crazy, for the obvious time-travelling reasons, but to hear someone put so much energy and heart into a story that is so absurd would be difficult. I would think Billy had lost his mind if I heard that story over the radio, and to me that is very depressing. It is apparent that Billy is suffering from some type of trauma disorder from the horrible things he experienced during the war, and to listen to a person suffering in his own delusions and believing them to be completely true would be hard. In all honesty I would probably turn the radio off and try to move on quickly.
Chapter 2 introduces Billy Pilgrim and the book keeps taking him to different places in time. The concept of time is confusing to understand. Trying to believe that the past, present, and the future all exist at the same time and cannot be altered on the set path that they run is rather difficult. Time never stops, it's always running in all forms and in all places. We exist in time, the present, we decide how our past is going to affect what we do in the present, ultimately affecting our future. Billy is unstuck in time, but the reality is that we all are stuck in time.
Before writing my comment I took a moment to consider how I would react if someone told me this story in real life as if it had happened to them. I came to the conclusion that I'd probably just laugh in their face and shrug off any chance at even remotely considering it feasible. I liked his story though, the whole Tralfamadorian belief intrigues me. One of my favorite things about life is the memories that are created through it, and the inner-belief that the memories you make will forever have an effect on yourself and the people who you created them with. It gives me so much motivation to live an eventful life.
If I had heard Billy's story on the radio, to be honest, I would probably change the station. Sadly, I am someone who needs proof to believe something. Whether his story is true or not, Billy believe that it's true. You have to either respect someone with the gall to believe something so outrageous or put them in a home. But, I would also feel at least a twinge of pity for the man. Anyone who feels it's better to believe something so ludicrous as time travel and intergalactic abduction must have been put through some pretty dark situations. But, pity or no, I would change the station with the mind set that, whoever that man was, he needs some serious professional help. I can't deny that there would be a part of me, no matter how small, that would want to meet him. Hear his story for possibly no other reason than to have the opportunity to dig into his mind and attempt to understand his thinking. A mind that can think something up like that must be some sort of brilliant.
I find the Tralfamadorian’s theory very intriguing. When I first read about it, I didn't know if I could believe him or not. Thus knowing Billy has been through a lot, it could have been a dream or all in his imagination to close out and forget about the war. I agree with the idea though. I believe that when death occurs, the person’s life is still existent. When someone passes away, that person still lives on with every person that was ever involved in their life. The memories do not fade away and no one is forgotten. The person lives on. The theory is describing an attachment when a person dies. I found the whole theory very interesting.
Going off of your question regarding the New York talk show, I don't think I would believe it, but it would more than likely get my gears turning. Sure, there's no proof of the events besides his say, but that's the best part. It's a story that he thinks is true, it's straight out of his imagination. Someone with the mental capacity to create this vivid story about a whole other civilization in detail must have been through more than anyone could imagine.
Tralfamadorians way of thinking is interesting . The belief that when someone dies they are still alive in the past is intriguing to me. I have never thought about it that way. When I take the time to consider the idea it seems plausible. When someone important to us dies in our own lives we tend to morn over the fact that they are gone rather then being thankful that they aren't suffering anymore or being thankful for the time that we had with them. We should remember people for who they were and how they were before they began to die. Then again we are dying everyday. If I were to be up late and hear this gentleman come on the radio I would have listened, I may have laughed and thought he was nuts but I would have given his story the time. I find it interesting that rather then asking a tun of questions his daughter first yells at him about the situation. Immediately assuming that none of his story could be true. If he is able to create this story with this much detail and passion why couldn't it be true ??
Weary's version of the war tells of his strong will as a character. The narrator later goes on to say that everybody was killed but Weary. He also possesses traits that would lead the reader to believe that he is selfless since he and his Three Musketeer buddies saved a college kid who was said to be too weak to be in the army. Lastly, Weary appears to be very focused to the task at hand, which at this case was finding out what happened to Billy.
The most interesting thing I have found in this novel are the thoughts the Tralfamadorians have on death. The thoughts of people on Earth are the complete opposite of those of the aliens. When Billy describes how earthlings see life he says “ It is just an illusion we have here on Earth that one moment follows another one, like beads on a string, and that once a moment is gone it is gone forever” (Vonnegut 27). This is completely true for almost every human being. Humans see life as a timeline that eventually ends but never returns to the beginning. All of the things that happened a second ago, year, and decade will never occur again. This creates a very depressing thought about death because once someone is gone they are gone forever, and it is comparing life to a ticking time bomb that is going to blow up. If humans on Earth saw death like the aliens, life would be much more pleasant for everyone because grieving of the deceased would not exist. It saddens me that humans cannot see life like the aliens because when moments become memories they can no longer exist and that saddens many.
Billy’s profession is ironic because he is an optometrist. He looks into people’s eyes and corrects them. Yet Billy is a bit off his rocker and has a problem “seeing” that needs to be corrected. Billy can see into his past and goes there quite often. He also needs help “seeing” and staying in the present. His job is significant because he never knows exactly what he is seeing next: if he is going to be performing an eye exam or is across the globe in Germany. Tralfamadorian is also connected to this because on earth, once again, we cannot SEE the planet, which is why nobody knows about it. The aliens are the only ones who can see to earth, thus explaining his reasons behind nobody knowing about his imaginary planet.
I like the theory behind all moments continuing to exist even after death. It took a story about an imaginary planet and aliens on a planet called Tralfamadorians for me to realize that this is true. It’s true because each moment in the past is just as real and equivalent to each moment in the future. The future is happening now in an equal ratio to each moment in the past. It’s a hard concept to explain, but all time does exist equally whether we continue to exist or not. Time happens whether we exist or not. Each moment we are alive is another chapter in our lives and we will only be remembered for our time spent alive, so it is plausible that someone stays alive in the past although they are no longer in the present. It’s not like when someone dies, they are permanently removed from history, so that is why I like the quote about living in the past because that keeps the person alive not necessarily in the present, but in our memories of the past.
I believe that not all the stories the narrator tells are reliable. Maybe not just for fictional purposes, but an exaggeration of the story. Also, there is no proof that the narrator was actually a witness. Perhaps the narrator doesn't believe nor support the "insanity" expressed through Billy Pilgrim, because most of the time Vonnegut writes from what he heard Billy say, and not what he actually did. I believe the narrator uses the unreliable stories for us to think about life from Pilgrim's point of view.
Despite how much Weary seems to hate Billy, the two men share in common being lone survivors of a tragic accident (even though Billy's occurred in the future). Speaking of tragic accidents, everyone around Billy appears to met a tragic end. Starting with his father in a hunting accident, then his mom wife in a carbon monoxide accident, and finally all of the plane passengers (save himself). I personally find this to not be sheer coincidence, as these events portray what is happening to Billy during the WWII timeline as well. Much like when he was in the war, all those around Billy are slowly meeting an untimely end. To me, this shows the unavoidable fate of Billy to always be alone.
If I were to hear this story of the Tralfamadorians obviously I would think that some crazy old man had called. Honestly, I would still think this. As of right now, unless this book somehow turns out to be some science-fiction fantasy book, which I doubt, I think these stories are due to Billy attempting to repress his terrible memories of war as well as the plane crash he was in. All his life, Billy has dealt with death. At a young age he was enlisted in one of the most deadly wars in the world where he experienced more gruesome things than any being should have to. By creating, or in Billy's case, believing, the story of Tralfamador, Billy is able to create a distraction from from his past which offers his only escape from a reality he doesn't wish to relive. I feel bad for Billy for this reason but if it's what helped him get through his experiences, then good for him.
Weary's version of the war story tells us a couple of things about Weary's character. For starters, it shows that he's trying to hide the past in false stories: hiding the reality of the events that occurred with the "Three Musketeers", the Forty-fifty-first regiment, and Billy. While the story is being told, he speaks as though the regiment "fought like hell": however, he hides the fact that he missed the tank and got his whole squad killed. When it comes to the "Three Musketeers", he states how they were "close friends immediately. If that were true, then why were they so quick in abandoning Weary and Billy? Lastly, the story shows Weary's great disdain for Billy in the paragraph that starts with: "But then this damn college kid, who was so weak he shouldn't have been in the army, asked if he could come along".
I talked about “so it goes” in my first previous post but I wanted to do a follow up type of post this time because my opinion has changed a lot since I read about its origin. I was completely against the comment “so it goes” at first but now that I know what it’s all about I genuinely like it. I think it is a very good way to look at death and it’s not that much different from how we actually do (aside from the time travel business). We say things like think of all the good memories you have of when this person was alive and healthy at funerals, which I think is similar to the meaning behind so it goes. I still am not sure why he chose those three words. Maybe it is because life/time is more similar to a story (mentioned in the previous post) the way the Tralfamadorians see it. I often have to stop and remind myself that the author isn’t actually recounting a story where this phrase exists, but he is creating the phrase and all of the significance that goes with it. I think that it’s quite amazing that Vonnegut was able to take three little words and pack so much meaning behind them, and that he was able to change my mind so drastically because that rarely happens.
i wonder if billy is actually dead and he is reliving his life in a random order, or if hes having ptsd. i think that would be the most obvious thing for it to be about considering ptsd wasn't recognized as a specific disease until 1980 and this novel was written in 1969.since they didn't have a name for ptsd they couldn't have actually known what was really happening to the people involved. i also find vonneguts description of death very amusing. violet light and a light humming sound. I imagine the author pissed off a lot of people by saying that.
As I began reading about Billy’s stories about the Tralfamadorian aliens, I kept questioning whether it really happened, whether Billy was just crazy, or whether it was just a dream. I feel like these "stories" he tells everyone is just Billy's way of repressing bad memories of war. This "better version of reality" is his way of coping. If I happened to hear Billy’s insane story on the radio I would probably just think he was a man going nuts and needed to desperately needed to be put into a psych ward for the rest of his life.
If I was listening to the radio in New York late at night and I heard Billy’s story I probably wouldn’t think much of it. Considering New York is already a strange town and it’s late at night when people don’t usually think straight I would think it was abnormal but not too far out there. In the words of Jim Morrison, “People are strange when you’re a stranger” meaning someone may seem strange when you don’t know them and they may also find you strange. But If I did hear someone say this I would instantly think that they were crazy and strange.
Again with the random thoughts throughout different periods in time, chapter two confused me and also made me feel sad for Billy Pilgrim. I loved learning that after the war he was able to go to college and pursue a doctorate in optometry. I was saddened to hear that he had developed a mental condition (similar to post-traumatic stress disorder) and was treated with shock therapy which leads me to believe this treatment may have led to the hallucinations Billy experienced with the aliens. I was again saddened to hear about the accident with his wife and the poisoning which was ironic because in war, Billy was probably exposed to mustard gas which could have easily killed him, but instead killed his wife. Overall, every time Billy mentioned the aliens i was reminded of my grandpa when he was diagnosed with Alzheimer's disease and he could not remember names or faces anymore but he would talk for hours and name specific details about a book he read as a child. It seems like Billy is doing the same thing, only focusing intently on one subject and rejecting any idea of reality.
While trying to follow Billy Pilgrim and his Marty McFly mind excursions, I am actually intrigued by the Tralfamadorians' concepts of life and death. It's very interesting to ponder the fact that multiple moments in a person's life could be occurring simultaneously. Also, the fact that Tralfamadorians' perceive a dead person as if they are in a "bad condition", and that they can see that same person in a perfectly healthy state right after in a different moment. Although Billy's stories about his "abduction" do sound absurd, he explains the experience and knowledge he gained from it in such an interesting unique way. If I were to here Billy talking about his stories on the radio I would definitely listen because I would love to hear more about how to moments can coexist. On the other hand, from an outside at the time, such as his daughter Barbara, I can understand how she thinks her father is going crazy since he did just return from a plane crash.
I found it ironic that Billy was an optometrist, someone who examines eyes. Billy Is constantly seeing the future, present, and past of his life. Billy doesn’t even know what he is seeing half the time because it could be the future, present, or past. So it is ironic that he would judge other’s eyesight. Once again I found Irony that Billy seems to be the only one that is surviving. I am wondering why Billy hasn’t thought that maybe the Tralfamadorians have had something to do with him living. It seems like Billy will end up being alone in the world without anyone to talk to.
Billy's prayer asks God to let him know the things he can change, the things he can't, and the difference between the two. I think he is thinking of the military when it comes to this prayer because he knows he can't affect the bombings in Vietnam. This suggests Billy doesn't want to be involved with topics like politics but wants to be involved in helping his community. I believe Billy randomly weeps because he has post dramatic stress syndrome from the war and the horrors he has seen. Also he is likely weeping because he misses his wife and father.
I think the Tralfamadorians' philosophy is completely plausible. It's just another way of looking at life. We're so focused on the loss of someone that we don't realize that they are alive in the past. They still exist everywhere. They don't just not exist now because their heart stopped beating. The Tralfamadorians make a metaphor that they are stuck like insects in amber. I love this because it is a perfect way to describe time. You are stuck in the now and can't be anywhere else at that one time. It's very limiting and makes me feel a little trapped and caged. Another side note to add, I'm glad this book didn't end up being a typical old war book, and that there is some science fiction mixed in, which is my favorite genre!
I really like how Vannegut described the tralfamadorians and their views. this chapter by far is the most interesting one yet. It's very philosophical and enjoyable. Also the way he calls it "unstuck in time" is an odd but new way to look at things. We only see whats going on now and not what will happen. personally the tralfamadorians sound pretty cool.
If I were in New York, and I heard Billy's story, my first reaction would be, "Are you serious." Anyone who would go onto late night radio and speak such gibberish is either crazy, or just really wants attention. People who say outrageous things like what Billy said, normally do it to make everyone talk and to make themselves feel important and wanted. I would absolutely not believe him and think of him ass a loser. What is believable, however, is the Tralfamadorians theory on death. If you think about it everyone is alive somewhere in the past. Although we can not relive those moments, they are there and we can remember them. That will never change, so in a way they are alive forever, but in the past.
When I started Chapter Two and Billy’s predicament is being explained about him jumping to different times and sometimes the journey is scary, it reminded me of when I read the novel The Time Traveler’s Wife by Audrey Niffenegger where the husband of the main character travels through time and never knows when and where he will end up and sometimes he is placed in very dangerous situations. I thought that it was pretty weird that Billy’s dad was killed in a hunting accident back in the states during the war when you would think that Billy would have been the one shot when other people were in a sense hunting him on the battlefields. Also, to hear Billy was the only survivor in a plane crash and his wife dies of carbon-monoxide poisoning is strange, too. It is strange because Billy is in two quite dangerous situations and comes away basically unscathed and two people who he loves a lot are both killed in places that a person would think of as safe or comfortable.
If I heard something about aliens on the radio I would most likely change the station. From reading more of the story it sounds like Billy has some form of PTSD, which might explain his “time traveling” and “alien abductions”. I thought that his daughter Barbara didn’t try and get him more help after the incident with the radio especially since she did think he dad was a bit crazy. I think it is pretty strange that Billy didn’t want to be rescued from his sink-or-swim experience even as a young child that might have been an indication of weird things to come or how unsatisfied he was with himself. It seems like Billy travels through time to places when he or someone else was experiencing strong emotion which would be why he returned to his unfaithful actions or when his sons baseball coach was emotional during a talk. I thought it was intriguing that the story about the soldier shot for cowardice was included in the novel and I think it was included maybe because Billy felt a connection between the two of them because maybe he felt as if he were a coward, too.
I forgot to mention this in my last comment, but I've got to applaud Vonnegut for his fantastic use of the word "flibbertigibbet." It's something I need to add to my regular vocabulary.
Moving on, Weary's fascination with torture is well, fascinating. It's very telling of his character and shows that he obviously has some sort of psychological issue that need to be sorted out. Perhaps a therapy session involving milk and cookies with Billy is in order? Just a suggestion. And I must be one sick person, but I found Weary's detailed descriptions of various torture devices to be interesting. There was a part of me that was uneasy, but overall I was impressed at his breadth of knowledge. I would probably stay as far away as possible from him if he was a real person, but he makes for an interesting character, which is what really counts in the end.
According to the Tralfamadorians, people still exist even after they die in all past moments, even future? I think this is a very interesting theory and have thought about it. The only thing I cant see plausible about it is how someone could exist in the future after they die, maybe the past in moments that have already happened, but not future?
Well SullivanS really covered the significance and irony of Billy being an optometrist. And I agree with what he said. He helped people so they could see and now he believes he can see the future and escape time persay. relive the past and the present and the future just through his eyes. while he himself was giving others the ability to see reality. But as interesting as the tralfamadorians are and what they have shown Billy I Still believe him to be crazy, but imaginative.
I think it would be cool to be like Billy Pilgrim and be ‘unstuck in time’, but when I want to and I choose where in time I go, and be able to relieve memories of growing up or go forward and see what my life will be like. What the Tralfamadorians say about always being alive in the past and future is actually pretty true because we will always have memories of people who have passed, and we will have parts of them with us in the future. I think his story on the radio is hilarious and its shows how insane he really is. It’s interesting that Billy is in the same profession as his father-in-law, and that he is helping everyone else with their problems when he has so many of his own. When everyone else dies in the Battle of the Bulge except for the two scouts, a tank gunner, and a chaplain’s assistant is ironic that every one of major importance dies but the four of them live. Out of everyone, they are the least crucial jobs and they are young and still have lives to live. Weary was a pretty lucky guy to survive the Battle of the Bulge, and be the only one of his tank crew to live after they were attacked because of his mistake. It is pretty ironic that he would be able to survive these situations and then die on a train.
Billy is an incredibly interesting character. If I had been listening to him on the radio, I definitely would have called him crazy or attention seeking. Nothing about his story is at all believable to me. I would have laughed at his lunacy and enjoyed the fictional stories he was telling me, because I would believe them to be just that, fiction. I think the whole idea of Tralfamadore is all in his head. The aliens have a beautiful view on death and time that would come as a great comfort to someone who had seen so much death and tragedy. It was a perfect copping mechanism to believe that his dead loved ones were still alive in the past. On a side note, I rather enjoy the phrase "unstuck in time" because in reality we are all "stuck in time" where we are. There is no way for us to become unstuck, unless we includes memories and dreams. In our own way memories are our ways to travel back in time, and dreams our way to travel to the future. However, even memories and dreams are only a state of mind, and we are in fact stuck in the time we are in right now.
At first, I was confused by the presence of the Tralfamadorians in the novel, but I soon became intrigued by their outlook on death. I believe the Tralfamadorians don't view death as a permanent ending because they believe a person can exist in different dimensions besides Earth. Humans just aren't able to realize this and view death as a person's extinction from the World. The phrase, "so it goes", greatly corresponds to this theory because it represents an alternative to death and how it is perceived by humans. I think of it as trying to convey that a person's physical body is just a home for their soul. Something that never dies and will continue to exist prior to death.
I really do think that all of us are stuck in time. Our whole lives depend on how much time we have in a day. We’re always checking the time, and it’s constantly on our minds. I think it’s kind of weird that time never runs out, so there’s an infinite amount of it, but there never seems to be enough of it. I know I’m always running out of time to do things, but then I realize there’s so much time. Time never ends. It’s just weird to me to think that something that there is an infinite amount of, there never seems to be enough of. I think that Billy’s family members dying and him living through tragic experiences says that there is something special about him. It’s like the universe knows that he is a special and unique person and they’re giving him another chance at life. But his family members dying says that since Billy is given all these special things and survives a tragedy, that people in his family have to suffer. If I heard Billy’s story on the radio, I would probably laugh. I would probably tell my friends and laugh about it, but I really wouldn’t think anything of it. All I would really think is that that guy is stupid. I think his story is very unbelievable, but I do think that is a special and unique person, so maybe something very out of the ordinary could have happened to him, and he just interpreted it as being abducted by aliens.
Weary is an... Interesting character. His odd fetish for torture makes me concerned, most normal minded people don't enjoy watching others in pain or putting people through it. I can't imagine putting someone through that sort of pain, you'd have to be some kind of sick, demented animal to enjoy those kind of monstrosities.
Being completely honest I think Billy's stories are ridiculous and unbelievable! If I were to hear them on the radio I would probably laugh and tell all of my friends about it then laugh some more. Maybe he was relating something in his life to being abducted by aliens and that was his way of showing it? But as far as being stuck in time I do think that we do tend to do that to ourselves. The saying "There's not enough time in a day" is so true because there's just so much of it and time never ends!
Truthfully, I would never be able to take Billy seriously. Even now to go on a radio show and say you were abducted no one would take you seriously and to say in that day an age people would have went nuts over the idea. I believe people are so stuck in time are used to their routine that they just race through life. You are always running on tight schedules and never just take the time to enjoy life. I truly believe I never have enough time to get everything I want done even with the twenty-four short hours we do have in a day.
I think that Billy's stories just show his creativity and how he wants to dwell on the past with people who are no longer in the present. The whole being abducted by aliens just seems to me that he is trying to get something across to us but in a more creative way. But it is too hard to me to tell just yet in the second chapter.
Billy's stories tell a lot about his character. I think they are definitely interesting. If you really want to know someone, listen to the stories they tell. I do think that Billy calling into a radio show saying he was abducted by aliens was a little much. People will only think you're insane.
If I was listening to the radio and Billy's story about being abducted by aliens came on, I would with out a doubt think it was all fake. But in the back of my mind with my imagination, I would have listened to the entire story. Especially at that time it would have been scary to think about. the mystery of the unknown has no answers, no facts nothing! it is just pure imagination itself.
Time's up.
Now, the questions asked and the chapter itself are very thought provoking. Because we don’t need to answer all of them these probably won’t be very organized but here we go…
If I were in New York or anywhere in the planet really, I would probably be very interested in Billy’s story. I’m not sure if I would believe it or not though. See, my first reaction was to attribute his sudden trip to New York and tell the world about the aliens to the fact that the plane crash probably really messed him up and he was just talking and talking. Then I realized he was saying some very insightful things included in his letter to the newspaper. These insightful things included the Tralfamadorians view on death. I do agree, in a sense, that people do live on after death. I don’t mean reincarnation or heaven or anything, but in memories. If someone affected you, you never truly forget them. They were a part of your past, molding who you are in the present, and ultimately affecting your future. Saying they continue to exist, I feel, is entirely truthful. Just because the person is physically gone, doesn’t mean their memory doesn’t live on.
For instance, The Fault in our Stars does a wonderful job at portraying this, whether Green meant to or not. In the story, Gus is obsessed with being remembered for something great. Making a mark on the world. And while he doesn’t make a mark on the world, he leaves an impression on Hazel in whom he lives on. So, overall, yes I do think that a person living in the past, present, and future, is entirely plausible just not in the literal sense of someone breathing and running around in these periods.
If I heard Billy's story over the radio, I would sit and listen. Although completely unbelievable, I would hear what he has to say for the purpose of entertainment. I believe Billy resents being rescued from the pool because if he would have died in the pool, he would have never had to deal with the situations he went through later in life. Hearing where "So it goes" came from gave me a new understanding of what it means.
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