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Herbert seems like a truly nice guy, but what's up with calling Pip Handel? What can you derive about Herbert's personality from his reasoning -- why he doesn't like Phillip but does like Handel?
Herbert is very kind -- almost funny -- in the ways in which he schools Pip on proper dinner manners...
So we get the story of Miss Havisham's jilting...or at least all that Herbert knows. So who is the brother and who is the runaway groom? I hope we get that answer in later chapters...
What is the connection between A) the childhood fight and Herbert's account of the childhood fight, and B) Herbert's current employment and Herbert's account of his current employment?
What are you first impressions of Mrs. Pocket and her parenting skills (tumbling up)?
12 comments:
Herbert calls Pip Handel because of the composer George Frideric Handel's piece, "The Harmonious Blacksmith." He chooses this name because he thinks that he and Pip get along very well (Thus the harmonious part) and that Pip was once an apprentice to a Blacksmith (Obviously explaining the Blacksmith part) and therefore chooses the famous composer of the piece. Pip is honored to have such a nickname, because it is that of a very famous person. Herbert reasons however that Philip is not a suitable name for Pip because it seems so snobbish and selfish. Herbert describes it as "it sounds like a moral boy out of a spelling book." Herbert suggests that it sounds like the name of an upperclass gentlemen that is snobbish, but good in his values. Herbert's reasoning is not exactly that of a very smart young man. Herbert says no to Philip because it sounds snobbish and rich, however he picks the name of someone rich and famous. Perhaps, since he has never heard of a famous person called Philip, he automatically assumes that it just sounds like a snobby upperclass name. Herbert's reasoning therefore reveals that his personality is genuinely nice and kind, but that he is rather absentminded and not very bright in his thinking.
I think of ice-cream every time Herbert calls Pip Handel. It's a bit distracting. Elizabeth pretty much summed up the name bit, although I do disagree about Herbert's manner of thinking. There is an irony that he picked the name of a famous person when he disliked "Philip" for sounding too snobby (which famous people tend to be). However, Herbert goes off of the connotation of the name. We've all met someone who we think their name just doesn't fit them for one reason or another, and then there are those who go by middle names or nicknames instead of their given names. It's all about feeling. Philip does sound a bit too posh and proper, and Handel is still a strong, interesting name (but I just can't imagine it being said with the same amount of snobbish, British accent as I can Philip...) I thought it was interesting that Herbert implied that he beat up Pip during the fight, when in all actuality he didn't land a punch. In connection to his employment, he initially claims to be an insurer of ships, but then explains that he is currently working at a counting-house. He's a bit of a dreamer, this one, replacing his less-than-favorable realities with his fantasies. Mrs. Pocket is a very uninvolved parent, in my opinion. She has her aids to everything for her, fawning and *falling* over her to take care of things.
There was a bit in this chapter comparing gentlemen and wood that caught my attention. It says that a man who is not a true gentleman at heart is never a true gentleman in manner, and that the more varnish that is added to wood, the more it's grain is pronounced. I can see this as a description of Pip. He's from a humble upbringing and is quite unpolished in the way of the genteel. I think that the more Pip continues on to become a gentleman, the more his old, country self will come out, and the more uncomfortable and disillusioned he will become with his new life. A part of growing up is experimenting and eventually coming to terms with who you are.
Lauren and Elizabeth have pretty much covered the meaning behind Pips nickname. I just want to add that I think that when Herbert gives Pip the name "handel" it somewhat bonds them together as friends. Usually close friends have a nickname that has a special meaning between the two people, which is exactly what happened between Pip and Herbert.
I think that Mrs.Pocket fits the typical "wife of a rich man" persona. She has nannies that are the primary care takers of her children. Even when she hears her youngest child crying, she instructs a nanny to go take care of it instead of getting up and taking care of the child herself. She even must be told to take her child from the nanny. It seems as though she is very uninterested in her children and would just rather leave them to be raised by the nannies. I was kind of confused by the whole dropping the handkerchief thing at first but the more I thought about it, the more I realized that this shows a careless attitude and also shows that she is very used to being taken care of by others and having the smallest things, such as picking up a handkerchief she dropped, done for her. I think that this might be telling of Herbert and his actions later in the novel because he was "tumbled up."
I agree with Lauren about the connection between Pip and the varnished wood. I think it is somewhat ironic that Herbert tells Pip that Mr. Pocket, being Pip’s future mentor, is the one who made the comparison between gentlemen and wood. Herbert explains how his father once stated “that no man who was not a true gentleman at heart, ever was, since the world began, a true gentleman in manner.” This goes to show that even though Pip has great expectations for himself, he will never be a true gentleman at heart. “No varnish can hide the grain of the wood; and the more varnish you put on, the more the grain will express itself.” I believe that this statement will play a big role in Pip’s development throughout the novel. As he becomes closer and closer to achieving the title of a “gentleman,” he will realize who he actually is.
Mrs. Pocket’s parenting skills are stereotypical of those of a rich woman. She is more concerned with herself than with her children, and she would rather have her servants raise them. When I read about the note that the Pocket’s neighbor wrote them addressing the fact that they had seen one of the servants slapping the baby, I was a little surprised by Mrs. Pocket’s reaction. Instead of making sure that the servant didn’t treat her children violently, Mrs. Pocket burst into tears because the “neighbors couldn’t mind their own business.”
I think it's kind of funny how Herbert calls Pip Handel. Herbert and Pip hardly even know each other and Herbert is already coming up with a nickname. People above me summed up the whole name thing pretty well, and think that Herbert simply just doesn't like the way Phillip doesn't fit Pip. Though it is ironic because really, if Herbert thinks that Phillip is a snobbish name, then it really does fit Pip. Pip is a snobbish person, looking down on "common" people, just like how he feels embarrassed of Joe. I was so glad to get the real scoop on Miss Havishma's life, though it was pretty easy to figure out what had happened to her, it's nice to know for sure. I really, really want to know who the runaway groom is! I think that somehow Pip's family is involved in that whole ordeal with the wedding, but that's just a random guess. Herbert is obviously living in a fantasy life. He really just kind of manipulates how his life has gone to be seen as better than it really is. So Pip didn't beat the crap out of him, he beat the crap out of Pip; and he isn't just working some simple job, he's really an insurer of ships! Through Herbert’s quirks, I really like his character. Mrs. Pocket needs to just give the kids to their nursemaids so that they will actually be brought up well. Mrs. Pocket just isn't the type who should have had kids. She has no clue what she's supposed to do with the kids, like a stereotypical rich woman who lets the nannies take over raising the kids.
Like Ashley had said, Pip is a very arrogant person for being ashamed of his own poor society. Really Herbert had the right idea if he were to name Pip Phillip for the snobbish name resembles his character well. Relating to the Victorian era, Dickens definitely portrays the carelessness of wealthy women through Mrs. Pocket. The fact that she has no intention to love and nurture her children shows she is the type of person who shouldn't even of had kids. This idea relates to how the rich only care about themselves for even Mrs. Pocket hands down the job of parenting to the nannies. Jordan explained the dropping of the handkerchief well for it does resemble how life was handed to Mrs. Pocket. As I read more about Mrs. Pocket I started to realize how in a way she is similar to Pip. For example, when Mrs. Pocket is reading the book on titles, she knew the exact date her grandpa would have been in the book. This shows Mrs. Pocket believes she belongs to a royal family and deserves to be treated well. However, like Pip, she acts and treats everyone as if she were of high status when really she is not.
Herbert I think knows that Pip isn't from a royal family to be deserving of the name Philip. So in this way, Herbert calls him Handel to differentiate Pip from his snobbish way, and without knowing, not letting Pip take on the full mask of snobbery. I feel almost bad for Herbert, as he has big dreams of sailing the world, but Pip knows it as well that he won't be very successful in this. He's very awkward and silly when it comes to manners. Though Herbert has big plans for himself, I don't think that he'll see to those in the end. I think Pip gaining his fortune was not by mere coincidence, as many of you know. There's obviously a mystery behind the so called fortune, and it's particularly connected to Pip somehow. I mean out of all people, Pip was chosen to be out of his village and into London. Herbert in reality has his own views in life. He's filled with delusions of grandeur about winning his fight with Pip, to sailing across the seas. In a way, I feel bad for him, since he probably knows how ludicrous it sounds.
One thing that struck me in this chapter was Pip telling Herbert to call him Phillip. When he first left the country, I remember reading Miss Havisham telling Pip that Pip would always be his name and not to change it. Now that he is in the city, he is trying to tell others a name besides Pip. I wasn’t sure if it was significant that he was trying to change his name now because he is trying to change his past, or just because it was a nickname that Herbert gave him. Another thing that I thought was ridiculous was the way Mrs. Pocket treated her children. She was very nonchalant towards anything that had to do with them, making her parenting skills seem horrible. I think Dickens is trying to prove that having a high status in that society often made you a worse person. Pip’s being raised by hand seems to be coming into play now, possibly showing that the more education and money a person has brings down the simple things that people really should do.
I think Bethany made a good point. Pip liking the nickname "Handel" so much is almost as if he is hiding more from his past. He is embarrassed by his old ways. Yet, I don't think, as mentioned above, that Pip is a snobbish. Yes, he was rude when he received his money, but he thought that is the way he was supposed to act. Pip grew up around rich people who thought they were superior to everyone else. The only model for morality was Joe, who was looked down in society because of his lack of education. Mrs. Pocket is selfish and doesn't understand what being a mother is. She doesn't care if she isn't part of her children's lives. She has the nannies do all the work. Mrs. Pocket is a wealthy woman who only really cares about reputation and money.
Herbert refuses to call Pip Philip because to him the name sounds lazy. He wanted to call him Handel because of his piece of music called the Harmonious Blacksmith. Herbert gives Pip a dinner lesson because he doesn't want Pip to be embarassed when he is around people in London. I think he does it in a way of looking out for him. Mrs. Pocket was a selfish individual, she really didn't take the time to get to know Pip. She relies on the maids to take care of her children it seems like she doesn't really act like a mother to them.
I couldn’t help but notice a possible, yet unlikely, explanation for Herbert naming Pip Handel. Herbert briefly described the name Phillip in a way that made it seem too traditional, inflexible, snobby, and high-class. While on the other hand, the name Handel was inspired by a piece of music. Music and art are usually symbols of what oppose traditionalism. Music is generally seen as liberal, open-minded, and relaxed rather than rigid. If that is the purpose of the name change, then that would say quite a bit about Herbert and his political and social views. It was entertaining to me that Herbert made it seem like the fight was a huge one, as if it was a paralyzing sort of fight. He also talks about his work in the same manner, with over exaggeration, to an extent. I had to read the paragraph where Herbert describes his father’s view on gentlemen. The full meaning didn’t sink into me, but I knew it was a disguised important statement haha. Although now I’m just questioning whether he means that one must be a gentleman at heart for it to show in his mannerisms, or if one must be a gentleman by blood. I smiled when Pip (Handel) described his observation of the children and their ways of getting their mother’s attention. It almost seemed like they stood in line, one by one, and “accidentally” fell on her. Mrs. Pocket is a very distant mother that feels parenting means providing care, whether through her own labor or through payment for others’ labor. It’s interesting that the nannies/workers she has seem to think she’s too oblivious to her surroundings and her children.
The gentlemen Pip recently met (of which he recognised from Miss Havisham's) by the name of Herbert Pocket. The young man almost immediatly dubbed Pip with the nickname of "Handel." This seemingly nonsensical name has a deeper meaning however; George Frederic Handel was a German born baroque musical composer. One of his more famous compositions is "The Harmonious Blacksmith." This ties Pip perfectly to his alias because he is (1) a blacksmith, and (2) a very (at this time) genuine, agreeable person. I think that Herbert decided upon that nickname of Handel because it helped his vision of Pip. It made Pip seem like less of a more snobby "Phillip" and more a down to earth and likeable "Handel."
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