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Is there any hope for a relationship with Estella based on her letter to Pip? Why, or why not?
Based on what you read, what is Dickens' opinion of the penal system, as filtered through the descriptions of Pip?
What do you make of Wemmick's conversation with the Colonel? What does this interaction tell us about Wemmick's character?
What is the nameless shadow?
14 comments:
My impression of Estella's letter is very cold and uncaring. I, personally speaking, do not understand quite why Pip does not grasp the concept that she doesn't feel the feelings that Pip has towards her. When Pip and Wemmick are walking around the prison, I thought that the comparison of Wemmick to a gardener was very accurate. When talking to the Colonel I got the impression that Wemmick was unconcerned with this clients fate, be it death! I think it reveals a lot about Wemmick and the type of work that him and Jaggers do. I also think their work has made them some what immuned to human compassion.I think the nameless shadow is Pip's convict.
Estella's letter I agree was cold and distant. She showed that her coming to London was not her idea, and she was merely following the orders of Miss Havisham. This is yet another way of her telling Pip she does not return his love, and only associates with him in respect to her guardian. The possibility of whether a relationship will bloom from this seems unlikely. Even though Estella has followed Miss Havisham's wishes so far, there's always the chance of rebellion. Although not in the aim of playing matchmaker, Miss Havisham seems to push Pip and Estella together. If Estella turns away from this lifestyle, forming a relationship with Pip (friendly or for love) may be the last thing she thinks to do. At the end of the chapter Pip mentioned how he felt disgusted while thinking of his experience and contamination in the prison and comparing it to the beauty and greatness of Estella. He tried do cleanse himself of the memories of the prison so he could attempt to be pure enough for Estella's love.
I believe that a relationship between Estellla and Pip is extremely likely. The success of and happiness in said relationship, however, does not have a bright outlook. Estella makes it clear that she could care less about Pip, yet for some strange reason he continues to pursue her. I'm beginning to see that Pip may view her as more of a trophy for his newfound success than an actual person. If I was Estella I might react to the situation coldly as well. She is practically being forced to spend time with a man who admires her only for her beauty. Of course, she doesn't give him a chance to get to see anything else in her, but still, I can understand her distant tone.
Wemmick seems to lose a sense of humanity in his work. There is no compassion in the way he reguards his clients, and as Robin said, it seems as if he has become immune to it through his work.
The estranged desire for the human psychy to long for something that they can't have seems to have made a tight grip on Pip's mind. The beautiful Estella seems to lack any of the feelings that Pip shares for her, going out of her way to state that she was ordered to meet up with him and that it was not her idea. Not saying that I blame Pip for his longing of a relationship, we've all been in a situation where the idealization of something greater makes us act a bit, well, stupid, but i don't think that this one will work out well for the two of them.
I agree with Robin in her view of Wemmick. Instead of feeling a sense of, well, sympathy for his client's, he seems to just look at them as objects. His job really seems to have weathered his sense of humanity down to the core.
I believe that the nameless shadow definitely has to be Pip's convict. It'd add a lot to the story i feel, plus it would add an interesting aspect of Pip dealing with his old, non-rich life.
The letter treats Pip as her servant and sounds very cold. I think there might be some hope to their relationship as she keeps egging him on. Wemmick's treatment of the colonel was solely like that as his pawn in a chess game. How he orders him around for information and treats him harshly without remorse. You can say he's just doing his job but I found it rather gruesome of how law and prison is back then.
Estella's letter to Pip was very forward and short and cold. She made it clear that she wasn't visiting on her terms, but for Miss Havisham. I don't think a relationship will bloom for them based on how Estella is and how she acts towards him.
I agree with Greg that it seems Wemmick's job has influenced him and we see that with how he treats the Colonel. It seems he has no sympathy towards him. I also think that the nameless shadow is Pip's convict. I also think that if it is, that it's going to play a big role in the rest of the story.
Based on Estalla's letter to Pip, there is hope for a relationship. She does not write in an overly formal manner, not including a greeting line and signing it as "Yours, Estella." Estalla may be acting on Miss Havisham's orders, but she is treating Pip as a familiar person, not as merely an acquaintance. Estalla has also grown up since her indifference to Pip. She may still act cold, but that could just be how she was raised to act, not an indicator of her feelings.
I believe that Estella doesn't understand love and doesn't want to be attached to someone. I think she is gaurding herself from something and she has to be cold to ward off things she doesn't want to be involved in. She might also find it creepy that Pip has such a fascination with her and she doesn't know what to make of it.
I think Dicken's exaggerates fear of the penal system in the book, he makes it seem like any second you will do some unknown crime and not realize it, fall into the hands of the terrifying, dramatic hands of the law. This kind of makes Pip's character a bit comical.
I think the nameless shadow is Pip's guilt or his fate. It's sort of haunting.
Estella not having feelings for Pip is extremely oblivious to everyone besides Pip. Estella's cold attitude and constant mention of orders should be the clue that she does not want anything from Pip. Yet, I believe that she will follow orders, making the possibility of a relationship likely. My prediction is that Pip will mature and realize the type of person Estella is.
I feel that Wemmick's conversation with the Colonel is a perfect example of the lack of compassion from the high society world Dickens wants to portray. Wemmick has such a lack of concern for his client who is going to die. He works for money and social status not to help others.
I don't think that there is hope for a relationship. I feel that Miss Havisham has ruined Estella, bringing her up to only want to break the hearts of men, not trust them, and not to love. I have to say Miss Havisham is super creepy when she whispers to Pip repeatedly to "love her!" Her letter consists of orders she has, and the way Estella speaks to Pip in the letter is as if everything is forced and she has no choice in the matter.
I feel Wemmick is very uncaring and heartless when it comes to the conversation with the Colonel. The man is going to die and Wemmick gives the impression to Pip that he does not care at all for the life of another human. I liked the way Dickens made it seem like Wemmick was merely a gardener and the people in the jail were his plants. When one goes, he'll find another to replace it.
I think there is hope, she does sign the letter, "Yours, Estella" so it makes me think that maybe she does have some feelings for him deep down in that cold little heart of hers. Miss Havisham's upbringing of Estella has made Estella into what Brittany Spears would call a "Man-Eater." She attracts all the boys, but has only been taught to make them fall in love with her, but never to love them back. When your raised a certain way you are unaware of the faults in your character. Dickens sees many faults in the penal system and describes the jail as lacking authority over the inmates, for example that they can drink beer.
I think there is still hope. Although Estella said she was only obeying orders, she never seemed like the girl who did what she was told to me. She always was very independent and she did was she wanted to do on her own time. So, my theory is that she doesn't want to sound like she likes Pip, after all, she is supposed to hate him, however she really does like him. So, she is using the excuse of "Ms. Havisham told me to" to go see Pip. Wemmick's conversation with the Colonel was very interesting. It was obvious that the Colonel did commit the crime he was being accused of, however it was as if Wemmick was justifying the crime. He never actually said "it's ok that you did this" but his attitude told me that he believed so. He just brushed off the situation as if it was no big deal and he saw this kind of thing happen everyday. However, I suppose it's true, he does see it happen everyday. I wonder if he has just become desensitized to is.
Estella obviously doesn't want to see PIP. She doesn't use his name on the letter and writes clearly that the only reason she's seeing him is because Miss Havisham wants her to. The wording makes her seem annoyed and rushed. It sucks that Pip has to wait all day for her, she can't just meet him somewhere. "Yah!" said Wemmick, touching me on the breast with his forefinger; "you're a deep one, Mr. Pip!" Something about that statement just catches me as extremely out of place, but I think I'm exaggerating Wemmick's expressions in my head. When Wemmick sees a shoot that had come up in the night, I'm assuming he's talking to a plant. Why would he have a one sided conversion with a plant named Captain tom or ask about Black Bill behind the cistern? Wemmick is an interesting character if you assume that he's completely out of his mind.
Just based on the letter, I do not think that there is any hope for an Estella-Pip relationship. First, the letter is short, something that seems to have been thrown together. In addition, in the letter, it seems as though Estella is meeting Pip on Miss. Havisham’s request, not on her own will; there is not even a greeting or questions about Pip’s wellbeing. However, I do not think that you can rule out the possibility, because as we see Pip begin to change, Estella could do the same. I believe that Dickens’ opinion of the system is disgust, from Pip’s description of the prisoners for the first time. I think that you definitely see that Wemmick is heartless. This man, “The Colonel” is about to be killed, and all Wemmick can think about are the man’s Tumbler pigeons. I do not think that the nameless shadow is a person, but Pip’s conscience. He is starting to have second thoughts about his new life, as he sees Estella.
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