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Why do you think Estella's "manner was more winning" than it had ever been before?
Pip states in a parenthetical comment: "I was not at all happy there at the time, observe, and I knew it well." Why wasn't he happy to have Estella alone in a restaurant?
Why are the Pockets (other than Matthew) scheming against Pip?
Pip finally learned how to tip...with Estella's money...
Estella calls Pip by his name for the first time -- a gesture that makes an impression on Pip. What is the significance of this gesture?
15 comments:
Perhaps not being around Miss Havisham is liberating to Estella. She doesn't feel pressured to fit into the mold the old woman has set for her, so she seems a little bit more pleasant. Up until this point in the novel, Estella has called Pip either "boy" or "Mr. Pip"-- an expression of either inferiority and indifference, or one of social respect and custom. Her calling him by his name is a gesture of personal acceptance and a symbol of confidence between the two. Estella also makes a comment about how the two of them have to live by their superior's wishes, and that they can't make their own paths in life. I'm still skeptical about Miss Havisham's true intentions, but it appears that Estella has some idea of what's going on. I still haven't completely figured her out as well, so her words could be advice or a warning to Pip, or they could be a hint to Pip of Estella's feelings. I don't think that Pip was happy when they were in the restaurant because of the pressure he felt to impress her. He was freaking out before she came, and when she finally comes, they get put into some smelly room. As for the Pockets, they're afraid to lose inheritance that they might receive from Miss Havisham to Pip, seeing that she has taken quite a liking to him, so they are trying to soil the good impression she has of him.
I find Lauren's thought about Estella being free from Miss Havisham's guidance very interesting. The reader has pegged Estella as a heartless young woman, but is that really who she wants to be? Since her early youth, Miss Havisham has almost trained her to seek revenge on the male gender for the wrongdoings done to her (Havisham) in the past, and that is the only part of Estella shown to the reader for most of the novel. Finally we see a trace of something different, along with her "heartless" confession earlier on. I think that there may be more to her than meets the eye, and I'm interested to see if the novel delves into this any deeper.
As for why he wasn't happy to be in a room alone with Estella, he was probably extremely nervous about their first real date off of the Havisham residence. It was a new setting, and alot of pressure to live up to. Trying to come off as a man society would deem Estella worthy of had to be nerve wracking considering he had worked to get to that point with her. He also always feels inferior to her almost always, which is never a good feeling.
Good news for Pip: she finally calls him by his name! This shows that shee finally might be warming up to him after all.
Estella's attitude was much more lively than her closely confined self when with Ms. Havisham. She perhaps is taking advantage of her new found freedom away from Ms Havisham and tries out different things starting from her attitude. She definitely feels more free, as Ms Havisham raised her all by herself and was strict on following everything Ms Havisham has told her. Pip probably felt that the restaurant was nowhere near good enough for his "date" with Estella, thus making him feel apprehensive towards the environment. He notices how everything is lacking in the restaurant and does his best to try and salvage the situation for Estella. Estella finally calls Pip by his name, acknowledging his presence and class. He is much better off with his new found fortune and Estella sees how it has impacted and changed him. It could also mean that Estella calls him Pip just because Ms Havisham isn't there monitoring them. That in a way, she's finally hinting his feelings for him, although discreetly, since Ms Havisham still has her in check.
Estella's manner was "more winning" because she no longer had her every move watched and calculated by Miss Havisham. She can be a little more free, and used this freedom to get closer to Pip without worrying about her guardian. She lets him kiss her hand and her cheek. Also, a previous instance is brought up-Estella had let Pip kiss her cheek before when they were kids, again when Miss Havisham was not around. Estella may feel less self conscious because she does not have to worry about Miss Havisham watching, or how Miss Havisham would feel about Estella's actions. Estella must follow a few guidelines, such as getting tea and going by carriage to Richmond,but she may achieve these goals while behaving however she wants.
I agree with Lauren and Myranda about Estella's behavior. I think that since she isn't under Miss Havisham's watchful eye that she can maybe soften up a bit. I think her upbringing of getting back at the male gender has caused Estella to be cold and rude in the past, but now that she is away she can be nicer to Pip, and call him by his name. I also think he was nervous to be alone with her in a restaurant since she's always so cold to him and acts as if she is better than him and she makes him feel like a lower class. Also, since he's become a gentleman he is trying to show her that he is worthy of her, and the restaurant's enviroment didn't help with that.
Estella seems to be acting better since no longer being around Miss Havisham. Not having Miss Havisham’s harsh influence must be a good thing for her, seeing as that Miss Havisham isn't exactly the happiest person to be around. Pip wasn't happy because he was still questioning where he stood with Estella. Pip was just agitated about being in a restaurant alone with Estella, and trying to come across as a gentleman rather than some foolish boy. It's not like Estella has been the nicest to him, so he was probably feeling pressured to not give her any reason to look down on him any more than she already does. All the Pockets seem to be intimidated by Pip, looking at him like he's competition for Miss Havisham and her wealth. With Estella finally calling Pip by his name shows how she is finally accepting him as a person worth something, rather than some boy with not meaning to her at all.
I see that everyone above says that Pip was unhappy at the time to have Estella alone in the restaurant because he had all the pressure to impress her, but I think it was more of a disappointment. The way Estella keeps reminding Pip that everything they have to do together is planned probably isn't how he wanted his first date to go with Estella. He wants her to feel the same way back, and he keeps building his hope on a situation that seems inevitable and hopeless. Estella gives no reaction to him, and Pip even relates her one time to a "statue." On page 284, Pip quotes "Her reverting to this tone as if our association were forced upon us and we were mere puppets, gave me pain; but everything in our intercourse did give me pain." So I think this is why Pip was unhappy. I think this brings us to why Pip was so happy when Estella called him by his name. She was finally recognizing him, giving him a reaction to all his efforts to make an impression on her.
Estella has always been under Ms. Havisham's roof. It, to an extent, seems like Estella is sort of like a maid, a well respected one, which over time has become more of a family member. She does whatever Ms. Havisham wishes, and talks only when she's told. And just as people in such environments/situations, once they leave that environment, they act and talk in a different and more open manner. I believe that once Estella was portrayed in an environment outside of Ms. Havisham's house, it was different and shocking. I also think that change really threw off Pip, making him even more uncomfortable than the nervousness did. I'm unsure of the reasons behind the Pockets' actions and thoughts towards him, but it might be that they do not feel Pip deserves all that he is receiving. Estella calling Pip by his first name says a lot about her view of him. She no longer feels superior or formal, but equal, personal, and relaxed.
Estella is a different person outside of Miss Havisham's watchful eye. I think that when she is around Miss Havisham, she acts like she was taught to act when she was growing up. Miss Havisham taught Estella to break hearts because of the heartbreak that Miss Havisham went through. She was trained to be very proper and it almost seems like Estella did whatever Miss Havisham wanted. Once she finds her freedom away from Miss Havisham, Estella can act the way she wants. I agree with Rachel that the restaurant was more of a disappointment instead of unhappiness. He is trying to show Estella that he is no longer lower class and that he has become a gentleman, but the atmosphere for their first "date" is less than he expected and dreamed of. When Estella called Pip by his first name, it proves that she accepts him and no longer looks down upon him. It shows that their relationship has changed and is becoming more personal and friendly instead of formal like it was when they were younger.
I am still trying to figure out what is going on with Estella and Miss Havisham's plans for her. I think she must know something because she told Pip that her coming to London and living with the mother and daughter was part of the plans for her. I do believe that Miss Havisham's plans include Pip. They must, or she wouldn't have had him meet Estella to pick her up. I am still not completely sure why Pip is never happy around Estella but I think it is because he knows his love is unrequited, and he can't stand it. He is so engulfed in her that it is literally torture when she knows but does nothing about it and I can see why that would be awful for him to endure. He clings onto every little thing that happens differently than normal. Like, for instance, when she says his name for the first time. For some reason, when someone you love says your name, it sound different, and gives you a different feeling than when anyone else says it, and he is experiencing that. It must be absolute torture to know that she doesn't feel that way as well.
I think Estella was more winning than she had ever been before because of her new sense of liberation. She now can make choices on her own and has realized that she actually can care for people. Pip wasn’t happy though because he knew that Estella still wasn’t in love with him. That was his dream and reason for becoming a gentleman, and it was depressing for him to realize that Estella still hadn’t acknowledged him the way he wanted her to. The significance of Estella calling Pip by his first name was that she was finally beginning to recognize him as a person she could care about, instead of just another person that Miss Havisham wanted her to break his heart.
Estella might be tempting Pip, being mean and critical of him wasnt driving him away so she is trying to appear a bit different. She is also inferring that it is kind of unfortunate but unchangeable that they both have to take the paths their superiors chose, she is trying to send a message about their paths and how they should react and follow through. I still believe Estella is out to hurt Pip, maybe because she doesnt want to be married or settle down.
Like I said in my comment on the previous chapter, I do not think it's Estella's fault that she behaves the way she does. When you are brought up a certain way you don't know any better, for example in my family we put noodles in our tomato soup, therefore when I was six and my friend's mom asked if I wanted soup I was shocked when there were no noodles in it. Normalcy is all in perspective, and Estella is used to a coldhearted personality towards men, so she behaves that way. I do not think that Estella's "manner was more winning" in any way, I thought that Pip just felt that way because he finally had her to himself. As much as Pip wants to believe there is something between them, deep down he knows she is cold and has no feelings towards him in that way which makes him miserable. I think that maybe the Pockets are scheming against Pip because they want his money, but I am not sure.
If peeing your pants is cool, you can call me Miles Davis. BEEP BOOP BLAP I AM A ROBOT HERE IS MY PURSE ENGAGING TEA DRINKING APPLICATION I AM A ROBOT. I like the idea that the owner is using his horses to make refreshments, maybe Estella will come down with some sort of horse-born ailment from raw horse tea. It wouldn't be hard to make a hardcore or scremo band using nothing but Pip's quotes, starting with "everything in our intercourse did give me pain." Did the waiter bring the ashes of one of his dead family members to the table, o was the urn empty. A mystery indeed. It's unsettling that I noticed this was the first time Estella called Pip by his name. Is it weird that Pip is jealous of Jane's boyfriend? My captcha is gonrea.
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