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Although Pip's family had died, Mrs. Joe's death is the only death he remembers. Do you remember the first time a "grave had opened" in your life? How did your experience match up with or differ from Pip's experience?
Mrs. Joe -- his sister, Joe's wife -- has died, yet Pip stays at the Blue Boar before the funeral. What does this tell us about Pip?
Is there significance to the three words Mrs. Joe says before she dies?
What's up with creeper Orlick?
In his talk with Biddy, why does Pip constantly "give up the point?"
15 comments:
About six years ago (wow i had to wait and think about that. It kind of feels just like yesterday) my grandfather passed away from Leukemia. Before that day, i had never even seen a dog die or anything like that, so this was pretty rough. Him and I were extremely close, he taught me how to throw a ball, ride a bike; He always believe in me 100 percent, which is a pretty big thing for a little kid growing up with big dreams of being a doctor or an astronaught. My experience was very different and yet the same as Pip. In both cases, we knew that something was wrong with our loved one. Mrs. Smith had been braindead since the assault, and leaukemia isn't exactly a sneaky killer, the person normally suffers for a while. We also both felt true feelings of remorse and sorrow. My papa had such a big personality that when he was gone, it just felt like there was a void in my life, something that Pip experiences with the loss of his sister. The main difference between Pip and I's loss of a loved one is that I was close with my Papa until the end and Pip was distant with his sister. Either way, i was able to identify with the hardship of the loss of a loved one, and I feel as though Dickens did a great job in describing that feeling of emptyness
I have only been to two funerals in my life thus far: my grandfather (back when I was in kindergarten) and my uncle Tommy (a few years ago). I had not been very close to either one. However, I, like Pip, feel the regret that comes with these losses. I wish that I had been closer to them. I don't know how the loss of his sister will change Pip, since the end of the chapter gave me the impression that he wasn't going to return to the forge, but as for me, I have made the effort to spend more time with the people in my family. I don't like the idea of being the cold, distant one that no one hears from. I'm grateful that I have gained something from the losses in my life.
Pip staying at the Blue Boar shows that he has distanced himself from Joe and Biddy, and that he is still too ashamed of his previous behavior to bring himself to be with them. Only when he and Joe have a slight reconnection does he agree to stay with them. The only significance that I get out of Mrs. Joe's words is that she may be telling Joe to forgive Pip for how has been acting and how distant he has become. Because Orlick is the main suspect in Mrs. Joe's attack, I get the sense that he's not the guilty one. Could it be possible that instead of creeping on Biddy he's actually looking out for her? Maybe he knows something and feels like he has to keep an eye on her. It could either be out of protection or -with my overactive imagination- SUSPICION! I would laugh so hard if Biddy was the attacker. Dickens: the original M. Night Shyamalan.
Although Pip feels really bad about how he has treated Joe and Biddy in the past, he does not stay in the Gargery house before the funeral. Pip feels exetremely guilty for the snobbish attitude he has treated Joe and Biddy with. Pip was ashamed and embarrassed with Joe when he came to visit Pip in chapter twenty-seven. He treats Joe as a second-class citizen and is worried about what Drummle will think of Pip when he sees Joe. Joe realizes this soon after he comes to visit and decides that he must leave Pip. Pip, therefore, regrets the way he acted and treated Joe since Joe helped raise Pip. It is very interesting, however, that Pip stays at the Blue Boar rather than in the Gargery house. This is not only a symbol of as Lauren said the distancing of Pip from Joe and Biddy, but also the prevalence of Pip's snobbish attitude. Pip thinks that he is too good to stay in a lower class house like the one that he used to live in. Or perhaps Pip is just too sad to confront Joe and Biddy before his sister is buried because he knows the stress it must have on them too.
I still remember the first funeral I went to. It was when I was very young, about 4 or 5 I think. I don't remember most of it, but I do remember everyone crying, and how sad it was that I wouldn't see my great grandma again. I've had many "graves opening up" throughout my life. They never get easier. In fact, many of them just increase the impact of grief that you feel. If I didn't have the faith I do about Heaven and God, I dont know what I would do, because a lot of what got me through the grief was knowing I would see my loved ones again some day.
PIp's experiance is very different than mine. He notices the living and the house before wondering where his sister was. If I noticed the living right away, it was usually a condemnation of how they had very little sympathy for a mourner, or how a death just tore apart my world, and their day is the same as the day before. Pip gets "annoyed" at Pumblechook straightening Pip's appearance, but not at kids cutting off the funeral procession. I would have been more than "annoyed" at the children. "Annoyed" is a very mild word for the agitation I would feel for anyone being that disrespectful of anyone's loved ones.
The first death I can remember I witnessed was the death of my Grandpa in third grade. When I was born I only had two grandparents, my Grandpa on my mom's side and then my Grandma on my dad's side. I got along really well with my Grandpa before his death and I have memories of visiting up north where he lived. When he died I was hit with the grief of knowing he wasn't going to be sitting in his chair anymore, much like Pip with his sister, and it was hard to deal with. The way Pip discribed the grave was exactly how I remembered my Grandpa's. Last year, I witnessed the death of my Nanny and was actually there holding her hand when she took her last breath. That was the most difficult thing I dealt with and I still had a hard time with it, even though I was older. Pip's experience is similar but also different. He wasn't close to his sister, and he also wasn't there when she passed.
I'm not sure if the three words are significant, but maybe her saying those words meant she wanted to see Joe and Pip before she passed or maybe in some way she knew that Joe and Pip weren't getting along as well as they once used to and she wanted Joe to forgive Pip for leaving and joining the higher class.
I think Orlick is a big creap in this chapter. He always has come off as strange and creepy in my opinion but, I think he still might have something to do with Mrs. Joe's death. I actually enjoyed this chapter, maybe because he returned home to his roots and brought back some of the old Pip we knew.
Pip has a guilty conscious about not really thinking about his sister at all while he has been in London. With Pip not staying with Joe and Biddy just shows that he wants to keep his distance from them because he thinks he is too good to be associated with them. Pip is upset with Biddy because she didn't write to him about his sister's health. I agree with Lauren that Mrs. Joe's last words were telling Joe to forgive Pip on how he was acting and how he never wrote to them or came around. I do think that Orlick was being more creepy than usual because he showed up on the night that she died, and he just creeped around.
The beginning of Junior year, I had never experienced death before. I have five people in entire family that I'm close to. And then, my grandpa fell and was in the hospital for months. I had hope that he would get better, but before I knew it, he was gone, and my small family became even smaller. Four months later, my grandma was diagnosed with lung cancer. She passed away exactly a month after the diagnosis this June. I can relate to Pip's experience because he says that it doesn't seem real. He expects her to be there or to walk into the room, and he has trouble grasping the fact that he will never see his sister again. I feel I also relate with Pip because he has a very small family as well, just him, his sister, and Joe (and Biddy if you count her).
With his talk with Biddy, I think Pip often gives up the point because he's more frustrated with himself than with her. She is very skeptical when he says that he will come and visit more often, and Pip becomes angry because he doens't want to believe that what she is saying is true. He's angry that she is probably right, and that he has changed so much. AKA, the truth hurts!
Pip staying at the Blue Boar for his sister's funeral really the shows the gap from his old life and new life. He feels that he doesn't belong in the house he grew up in, whether it's because he feels that he is above it or because he is a stranger in his own family. During Pip and Biddy's talk, I think that Biddy was in the right. She knows that Pip won't write or visit. Pip is only angry because he knows that it's true but doesn't want to admit it. Orlick is one creepy guy. He takes creeping to a new level.
Even though Pip feels guilty and embarrassed about the way he treated Joe in chapter 27, Pip doesn’t really change his ways. When he stays at the Blue Boar instead of at his old house, it shows that Pip is still ashamed of his roots. I am unsure of what Mrs. Joe meant by her last words. I agree with everyone above and think that it must have either been her wanting to see them before she passed or she wanted Joe to forgive Pip for the way he treated him and she wants Pip to start treating Joe better. I think that when Biddy is unsure of Pip really intending to visit, it really angers Pip because he knows that she is right. He doesn’t want to admit that he is very unlikely to visit or write, but he knows that it’s true because he treated Joe poorly in the past and is likely to keep treating him the same way.
This funeral really flabbergasted me! It seemed to me, people were using it for selfish reasons to get attention rather than to pay respect to the family and to celebrate the life of a loved one. I was seriously surprised. I have never been to a funeral, and I have only ever been to one wake. And this person was not related to me, nor did I know him, however I knew his family. I have only ever lost one family member and one other loved one, and I was not extremely close to either of them at the time of their passing, which could be similar to Pip's experience. I think there is significance in the words that Mrs. Joe says before she dies, or at least in the two names she mentioned, Joe and Pip. I think she did actually love them, she just didn't show it, until she was on her deathbed.
I'm fortunate that I haven't seen anyone close in my family to pass away yet. I know that eventually we all die, but I kind of wish that I don't have to be in the presence of someone that died. It would just be very ominous for me and I don't think I can really face that kind of harsha reality. Pip knows that he treated his family members wrong, and regrets that he wasn't able to reconcile with them. So in his shame, he stays away from the family and stays in the Blue Boar until the day. I think Mrs. Joe was very grateful for Joe and Pip, since they really have been there for her in most of her life. Those three words that she says, are her thank yous to her loved ones.
I have not yet experienced a close family member dying. However, I have felt loss, and Pip did not. He felt an obligation. He had no real desire to go and comfort Joe because it would be awkward for himself to face the family he left behind. It was a very selfish act indeed on Pip's part. I agree with the above others, that Mrs. Joe's last words were meant to show that she did love them, just not in a loving manner. Orlick, well Orlick, must have a reason for creepin' the way he does. Nobody is that creepy just because.
I have never experienced one of my family members died, so the only time a "grave had opened" in my life was when my friend's dad passed away. Just like like Pip's experience, mine did not feel real. When I saw his body it made me just think about when he was alive and how it didn't seem real that he was dead. I just expected him to come make jokes with my friend at any minute but I knew deep down it wouldn't happen. Pip staying at the Blue Boar showed that he was afraid to face Joe and did not seem very interested in comforting him. I really hope Pip actually keeps his word and comes back to visit Joe and Biddy, and like I've said numerous times in my blogs... I want Biddy and Pip to become a couple!
sometimes it's good when someone passes away. If they're suffering, it can be hard to watch them be tortured, but I wouldn't say that their death (the gap it made in the smooth ground) was wonderful by any means. A very poor choice of words by Dickens it really does not make any sense. Saying the death was wonderful makes Pip seem like a harbinger of death or something who gains power when people die. Why didn't he go to see joe immediately when he found out about Mrs. joe? It was his sister and he waited until her funeral? He didn't go right away? What's wrong with him? Pip is a monster. Even if his sister was nasty she was still family, she was still joe's wife, she raised him when their parents died and Pip, even though its more emotion then he's shown the whole book, is still pretty unphased.
I really didnt think it would be such a ground breaking thing that mrs. joe had died considering she was almost brain dead and not really there but i guess as long as she was still there the memories still stayed more alive than losing her completely.It was a surprise she died, but it is understandable after you think of all the foreshadowing that the author added in, around the time when Pip's guilt was killing him. Pip was affected by the funeral in more ways than just his brain dead sister dying, it was a hit on the head realization in the real world not just in pip;s guilt about what he has forgotten: his family, his humility, and his respect.
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