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Man, Pip's got it bad...and Estella has not only hinted -- but actually warned Pip -- that she does not feel the same towards him. So why does he torturing himself? Why doesn't he just stop seeing her?
Is Pip correct in his thinking -- that he is chosen by Miss Havisham, and that makes Estalla more able to break the hearts of other men because she is untouchable?
It seems that Miss Havisham really has made a heartless monster of Estella. Are Estella's logical analogies true? Is it possible for a human to feel no love for another?
Although Pip is irate about Drummle, Estella indicates she is leading him on, like so many others. The exception for her is Pip. Does this mean that he is the only one she cares for? Does she love him without actually realizing it?
12 comments:
Pip defiantly has it bad when he talks about haunting Miss Havinsham's house when he dies. I think that Pip holds on to his strong feelings towards Estella because he thinks that in the end, he was chosen to be with her. I do not think it is true for a human to have no feelings for another human. It is just not realistic. She may think that she has no feelings but deep down everyone has to feel something for someone eventually. I think that she does really care for Pip but she just keeps it from showing. If I was Pip I would be so confused!
I agree with Robin, Pip's beyond head-over-heels for Estella when he thinks of haunting Miss Havinsham's house when he dies. Pip seems convinced, almost brainwashed, that he is meant to be with Estella. This is the main reason why Pip will not give up on Estella and why he completely tortures himself. I truly believe Estella has learned to obey and portray a "heartless monster" just to seek revenge on men for Miss Havisham's sake. I think this is a self-discovering point for Estella for she finally voices her opinion to Miss Havisham. By blaming Miss Havisham to be the reason behind her failure to love, this shows Estella's interest in wanting to be compassionate. Yet, I still see that deep down Estella connects with Pip on a different level than the other men. She tells Pip he is an exception, which obviously sets him apart from the others.
Even though Estella doesn't return Pip's feelings, Pip can't let go of her because he loves her, and she was and is his driving force. He can't come to terms with the idea that his efforts have been in vain. I can understand Estella's thinking. When someone has been taught to hate and to crush love from a young age, it's not easy to practice the opposite. Besides, Miss Havisham is not necessarily the most loving parent. She has used Estella as a tool and is so full of bitterness and hate that she didn't treat Estella as a daughter. It seemed she was distant and used Estella when she needed her -- for her desired purpose. Hatred won't produce love. However, love, or at least warmth and sympathy, is still possible, but just overshadowed, for someone like Estella. I do think that Estella feels something similar to affection for Pip, but he's not necessarily the only one she cares for.
Not only is Pip torturing himself but he is torturing me! I feel so bad for him because I think he is way beyond the point of him just not seeing her anymore. That wouldn't solve anything because his mind would just constantly think about her. His whole heart and soul obsesses over her, which is why I think he said he would haunt Miss Havisham's house when he dies. What a creep. I mostly blame Miss Havisham for this fiasco. She molded her into what she is: a cold heartless monster. I think it's possible for a human to act like they feel no love for another but deep down they have all those feelings. That is how it is with Estella. Also when Estella called Pip the exception I didn't think she meant that he is the only one she cares for. I thought she meant just what she said, that she doesn't lead him on because she doesn't have to. She just blatantly doesn't like him and she isn't afraid to show it.
Pip seems to be living in an unrealistic world in which he expects his great expectations to carry him into prosperity allowing everything to work out how he sees fit. Instead of realizing Estella has a cold heart and does not love him, Pip chooses to think he can make her see that she loves him. Through the chapter she warns Pip not to get attached to her yet Pip still thinks he can get around this 'minor' issue. Pip can't simply let go of the idea of being with her because it has been there since his first trip to the Satis House. Along the same lines, Estella cannot accept Pip's love because from an early age she was taught to hate men and treat them cruelly. Miss Havisham seems to start realizing what a cold person Estella has grown to be and realizes she brought her up to not only hate men but won't accept love from even her. I think Estella feels something for Pip, but it's not love. At this point them seem to both be semi controlled by Miss Havisham, and because of this they can both relate to one another. The best that Pip should hope for in the future is to form a friendship with Estella because she seems unable to accept any form of love.
Pip does have strong feelings for Estella because he thinks that they are meant to be together. Miss Havisham has defiantly made Estella into a heartless monster just because of Miss Havisham's experiance with her lover. It is kind of sad for Estella because she will never learn how to love and to be kind to one another due to growing up with Miss Havisham. I feel that deep down inside Estella does have feelings towards Pip, but she won't show it, possibly because of where he came from. I don't agree with her analogies. Everyone has feeling towards everybody whether it is feelings of love or hate, there is always something there.
The relationship between Pip and Estella is odd. I just feel that what Pip feels for Estella isn't love. It is just fondness for what is on the surface. She has done nothing agreeable to recommend herself to him. I think that Pip has more of an obsession with her rather that actual affection. Which is why he has such trouble letting go of her. I think that through Ms. Havisham's actions, Estella doesn't love anyone. Instead of creating this monster to torment the lives of men, she also made her incapable of actaully feeling affection towards anyone. I also believe that Estella doesn't love Pip but holds him in higher esteem than the rest of his male counterparts.
Pip is so determined to win Estella that he doesn't see all the fine details. I think he subconsciously knows that they will never be together, but it also could be the desire of achieving something you will never have. Estella probably will never genuinely love anyone because of Miss Havisham. When the two were arguing, Estella told Miss Havisham that she was what Miss Havisham had made her, which pretty much is a heartless monster. Miss Havisham never taught her to love, because she wanted to live through Estella's life, and Estella knew that all along.
Pip keeps torturing himself because that was the only he person he knew himself as now. He left his family and friends back home in hopes of becoming a gentleman that would make Estella realize him. If he were to give up on Estella, or stop seeing her, it would defeat the purpose of his life. I like how Estella seems to be standing up for herself now, and although I don’t think it’s possible for a human to feel no love for another, I think Miss Havisham taught Estella from the time she was little to not acknowledge feelings towards others. So by telling Pip she is leading him on, I think Estella did have feelings for him that she didn’t know what they were or how to express them, so she instead warned Pip of what she was doing.
Love is blinding' love is stupid' which causes men who are in love to become blind and do stupid things. Pip is under the impression that he is in love with Estella (even though i dont believe he even knows what love is) so Pip convinces himself that Estella has to feel the same way, even though she has straight up told him she does not and is only here to play tricks and hurt men like Miss Havisham wills. Pip is a man who dropped all logic to follow a woman that he will never obtain. Pip is not the one for Estella, he again convinces himself that he is the one Miss Havisham has saved to be Estellas beloved forever. Again he is convinci8ng himself because he thinks he is in love with Estella even though he has no evidence or any hints that Estella is saved for him. I think that it is possible for a human being to have no feelings, no emotions to express. Psychopaths are born everyday. From hearing about Estella's past we can assume that having that hard of a past can turn a person to be dehumanized. I do not believe Estells loves Pip or ever will love Pip. So he needs to move on and stop holding on to her, i dont even see whats so special about her
Pip's feelings for Estella is like reading a horoscope. When you read a horoscope and it applies to your life, you tell all of your friends and believe that the stars are telling your future. Yet, when it doesn't even come close to relating to your life you completely ignore it because of the one time it told the truth. Pip is ignoring Estella's hints of being uninterested because he is so focused on the times she has lead him on. I think it's definitely possible for someone to believe they do not love anyone, but I don't think it can actually be done. Humans cling onto someone unconsciously. We are born and are constantly held and feed.
Like others have said, I think it’s really strange that Pip would consider haunting Miss Havisham’s house once he dies. I believe that Pip continues to torture himself because he still hopes that he and Estella are destined to be together. However, Estella repeatedly tells Pip that she doesn’t feel the same way towards him; she even goes so far as to ask him if he will ever take warning. I do think it is possible that Miss Havisham has programmed Estella to never be able to love. However, I hope that isn’t the case. Even though Estella seems to have a hard, indifferent exterior, I believe that there is a chance that she may reveal her affection for Pip, or anyone, later on in the novel. As for Pip’s thinking that Estella is easily able to break the hearts of other men because she was chosen for him, I do not agree. I think that Pip clings on to the idea of this because he so badly longs to be with Estella.
One thing that really stuck out to me in this chapter was the conversation between Estella and Miss Havisham concerning Estella’s indifferent behavior. Miss Havisham questions Estella about her behavior by asking “would it be weakness to return my love?” When she asks Estella this, Estella shows more of her inner self by explaining to Miss Havisham that she knows no other way to act. Normally, Estella would obey any order or recommendation that Miss Havisham gave her, but during their conversation, Estella breaks out of her shell and defends herself: “The success is not mine, the failure is not mine, but the two together make me.” With that said, I think that somewhere throughout the novel Estella will uncover more of her inner personality and feelings towards others.
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