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| Photo Credit: http://ardunward.com |
What is the significance of
the Tralfamadorians having only one book and the fact that the one book they
have is Valley of the Dolls?
Billy seems to be full of fear at age 12...fear of the Grand Canyon, fear of falling in, fear of having his mother push him in, the Carlsbad Cavern's roof falling in on him, a glow-in-the-dark watch...what's with all the fear?
I wonder what the American said to make the guard angry enough to knock him down...
The Englishmen had saved all that food...why not take care of the clerical error so that the troops on the front would have enough food?
New word alert: rodomontades
The British are shown to treat war as something stylish, reasonable, and fun. Why?
"The banquet hall was illuminated by candlelight." The candlelight was provided by candles made of human fat. grotesque image in an otherwise celebratory, welcoming environment...
Where else would one be able to take in a showing of Cinderella during WWII?
Why is it significant that Derby is reading The Red Badge of Courage?
So Billy was in a mental ward after the war...Does this make his story more or less plausible?
"So they were trying to re-invent themselves and their universe. Science fiction was a big help." How so?
Derby refers to the war as the "Children's Crusade." Where have we heard that before? Why is that significant?
Why do you suppose Billy is so averse to seeing his mother? Is the explanation of feeling guilty sufficient, or is there more to it?
Valencia sounds like a prize...
What do you make of the re-write of the New Testament?
Funny that the Tralfamadorian crowd goes crazy when Billy goes to the bathroom -- just like crowds at the zoo react when apes or monkeys go to the bathroom. What's up with that reaction?
Why can't humans follow the advice of the Tralfamadorians and just ignore the bad and celebrate the good?
What are your thoughts on the gravestone drawing?
What are your thoughts on Howard W. Campbell, Jr.'s thoughts on Americans and war?
Is Billy cheating on Valencia when he is sleeping with Montana, or is he absolved by the fact that it happens on a different planet?
Billy seems to be full of fear at age 12...fear of the Grand Canyon, fear of falling in, fear of having his mother push him in, the Carlsbad Cavern's roof falling in on him, a glow-in-the-dark watch...what's with all the fear?
I wonder what the American said to make the guard angry enough to knock him down...
The Englishmen had saved all that food...why not take care of the clerical error so that the troops on the front would have enough food?
New word alert: rodomontades
The British are shown to treat war as something stylish, reasonable, and fun. Why?
"The banquet hall was illuminated by candlelight." The candlelight was provided by candles made of human fat. grotesque image in an otherwise celebratory, welcoming environment...
Where else would one be able to take in a showing of Cinderella during WWII?
Why is it significant that Derby is reading The Red Badge of Courage?
So Billy was in a mental ward after the war...Does this make his story more or less plausible?
"So they were trying to re-invent themselves and their universe. Science fiction was a big help." How so?
Derby refers to the war as the "Children's Crusade." Where have we heard that before? Why is that significant?
Why do you suppose Billy is so averse to seeing his mother? Is the explanation of feeling guilty sufficient, or is there more to it?
Valencia sounds like a prize...
What do you make of the re-write of the New Testament?
Funny that the Tralfamadorian crowd goes crazy when Billy goes to the bathroom -- just like crowds at the zoo react when apes or monkeys go to the bathroom. What's up with that reaction?
Why can't humans follow the advice of the Tralfamadorians and just ignore the bad and celebrate the good?
What are your thoughts on the gravestone drawing?
What are your thoughts on Howard W. Campbell, Jr.'s thoughts on Americans and war?
Is Billy cheating on Valencia when he is sleeping with Montana, or is he absolved by the fact that it happens on a different planet?
98 comments:
The story of the Englishmen and the food actually reminds me of another story. My granddaddy, who is now ninety years old, fought in World War II for the Canadian Army. I have heard many stories, like how he was accidentally assigned to drive a tank when he had no clue how to and had not been trained. However, the one that comes to mind was what he did with his provisions the army gave him. In those days, most men were given cigarettes more frequently than food. My granddaddy, realizing this, never smoked his cigarettes, but instead traded with American soldiers for fresher foods like eggs and meats. This helped him stay nourished and somewhat healthy. Where these two stories connect is at one simple word: survival. The Englishmen saved the food because they knew if they did not, their outlook would be bleak, like that of the Russians in the camp.
I suppose the Englishmen are saving the food because despite the relations they have developed with the people that hold them captive, they seem to still realize that prisoners need the food more than the enemy soldiers. I find the situation with Billy and Montana interesting though because while considered in the practical sense cheating, Billy is in a moment of stasis where he cannot get home and will live out his life as he knows it on this different planet with Montana. With no other choice and the option to please both Montana and the Tralfamadorians, Billy takes the option which I do see understandable but in "our time" is considered cheating nonetheless.
The British officers treat the war as fun and stylish because they were some of the first prisoners taken captive. They had plenty of food and relative safety for years as everyone else was weather beaten, starved, and attacked. They didn’t have the bad experiences of the war. In the beginning of World War Two, people saw wars as honorable and valiant causes, and the Englishmen were probably of that mindset. They might have already been in the military when the war started or volunteered as soon as they could because they wanted to win glory and honor. So now we see them years later after they sat in comfort as the war ravaged lands and people. Compared to the rest of Europe, they probably are having fun.
The Red Badge of Courage is about a boy who sees the true horrors of war. The war loses its glossy finish and all thoughts of honor are destroyed. I think this book is ironic because almost all the soldiers (British excluded) are fed up with the war. I know that Vonnegut is anti-war, so by maybe having characters read The Red Badge of Courage, Vonnegut is throwing in more proof of the horrors of war. I also think that like the boy in the story that gets disillusioned with the Civil War, Billy is disillusioned with his life. All he does is sit by passively as his life is flying past him. I find his inactivity to be a waste of human life like the boy in The Red Badge of Courage finds the war a pointless waste.
So the Tralfamadorians are to humans what we are to apes, or so the analogy of the zoo insinuates when the aliens go wild when Billy uses the bathroom. It could lead to the possible thought that maybe the Tralfamadorians are humans, but further along on the evolutionary ladder. Just a thought, although I think the Tralfamadorians would have let Billy know simce they so righteously have the ability to see in the 4th dimension. In another thought to Billy's zoo living is the idea that maybe he is cheating on Valencia when he sleeps with Montana. Honestly, why wouldn't he? Wouldn't you? It might be a horrible thing for me to say, but think of the situation from Billy's perslective. He already knows that no one will believe him about his time on Tralfamadorian home world, he has already expressed his less than stellar expectations of his marraige with Valencia, and lastly he is on an alien planet that most likely doesn't conform to the moral codes on Earth. When in Rome... In the end, no I dont believe that his time with Montana should be considered an affair. Also keep in mind that none of the time spent on Tralfamdore actually counted on Earth since they returned him on the same night that he left.
Our opinions on topics can to an extent be derived from perspective. The British haven't truly experienced war. They haven't seen the death, starvation, and regret that others such as the Americans have. When they were "imprisoned", they had literally tons of food, they had been treated kindly by the Germans, and they had received multiple sheds to occupy. Everyone else is completely fed up with war at this point.
Humans cannot just ignore the bad and celebrate the good as the Tralfamadorians suggested because often times, bad events in life are important lessons to learn from. For example, if a child were to run around a pool and fall, but the child only focused on the fun times at the pool, then the child may make the same mistake of running by the pool in the future. Furthermore, we cannot just sit by and ignore the horrific events of WWII and only celebrate that there has not been another world war because that would be foolish. As the saying goes, "those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it." Although it is not good to dwell on bad events in life, completely ignoring anything bad could cause negative consequences down the road. Also, failure is a better learning experience than success because when someone fails, they have to figure out what went wrong in order to succeed in the future. Even though it would be nice to only celebrate the good and ignore the bad in life, bad circumstances are often the best ways to learn what is necessary for a better future.
I think the fact that Billy was in a mental ward after the war makes the story less plausible. It helps prove that HE truly believes those things happened, however it also gives cause for me to not trust that as fact. Memories get skewed in peoples brains who don’t belong in mental wards, so his are probably extra skewed. It’s interesting to see what he’s going through and how his mind is making connections. There are many references to to past “time travels” and a lot of repetition. Examples that come to mind are the blue and ivory feet, and obviously the phrase “so it goes.” Also, he wakes up nestled like a spoon quite often.
Derby refers to the war as the "Children's Crusade." We have heard this term from Vonnegut in the beginning of the book when he talked to Mary O'Hare. Mary told Vonnegut that she didn't want him writing a war book because he would make their characters sound like men and not children. She told him that they were only babies in the war. What this meant was that she didn't want anyone's babies to be killed in the war. She didn't like war or want it glamorized. When Derby called the war a "Children's Crusade," he was basically saying that they were all just children in the war. Everyone fighting in the war is somebody's baby, and they aren't "manly" in war. Men fighting in the war are like children because they are all scared. It doesn't matter what age you are, war is always going to be a scary place. The people that are fighting see what happens to their friends, and they know it could be them the next day.
First of all, I feel that the British act so giddy and easy-going because of how wealthy they are. By wealthy, I mean that they have tons and tons of food stored up, and are not willing to share. Also, the British haven't experienced war in the way that the American's and such have. They haven't seen the harsh living environments and conditions that others have faced. The British have been spoiled. Secondly, I find Billy's roommate in the mental ward, Eliot Rosewater, to be a really interesting character. He's only really focused on for a couple pages in Chapter Five, but one line he spoke really caught my attention. As Rosewater is describing a book to Billy, he explains that everything there was to know about life was in this book. Rosewater then says, "But that isn't enough anymore" (101). This shows that Rosewater is a practical, rigid character.
Billy and Valencia have a strange marriage. Valencia seems to truly love Billy but it does not seem to be about love for Billy at all. Nor would I say it's about money though Valencia comes from a wealthy family. Billy says on their honeymoon that he knows what their marriage will be like because of his time travel and that it will be bearable. But why is bearable enough for Billy? Is it because he's been through so much that's unbearable? Or maybe because he believes that what happens has and always will happen? I wonder if Billy just doesn't think he can change any of it. It is a sad thought that Billy married Valencia just because he knew he was going to marry her.
I think that much like Humans, the Tralfamadorians are interested in other species and love to watch them. The world has so many zoos because people like to watch other things that aren’t them and want to know everything about them. They probably find it strange that humans use a toilet just as we find it strange that monkeys go wherever they please.
Humans tend to look on the bad side of things, well at least in this day and age. Depression is at an all-time high right now as well. Humans are just sad people overall, they can’t ignore the bad they have to confront it. On the bright side people do celebrate the good. Its hard to ignore the bad, I mean its hard to ignore a death or divorce in life. The Traflamadorians don’t see death as being gone completely though.I think that Billy believes he isn’t cheating on Valencia because, he said earlier in the novel that he time traveled to the only time that he cheated on his wife and it wasn’t this moment.
With Billy in mental ward, I believe the story is more plausible. It is as if Billy is going crazy after the war and he is imagining things. The time travel back in time are flashbacks and the trip to Tralfamadorian is a dream. I find it interesting that the Tralfamadorians tell Billy to only focus on the good and not the bad. Humans can’t follow this advice because humans are defined by experience. Bad events shape a person just as much as a good event. To only focus on one would take away from experience.
Humans cannot follow the Tralfamadorian's advice about ignoring the bad and celebrating the good because we were taught at a young age to turn the bad times into lessons. I babysit for many people and when a child gets into trouble I always have to ask the child if that was a good choice and then if they still don't cooperate then I put them into timeout to think about their actions. Thinking about the bad helps us to learn and not make that same decision again. Most of the time if a child is put into timeout for the same thing repeatedly they tend to learn not to do that again. However humans still do celebrate the good. With babysitting I like to use candy to reward the kids when they use the potty while being potty trained. This approach also helps teach kids but if we never focused on the bad, humans would never learn from their mistakes.
With Billy’s constant trips to Tralfamadore, he decides he wants to read on the way there. When asked for a novel he is provided with the novel Valley of the Dolls by Jacqueline Susann. After doing a little bit of research on this novel I found that it was about a young, New England college graduate who is chasing her Broadway dreams. I found this to be ironic in comparison the Billy who has given up on his dreams and just does what he is told and goes where he is told to go without complications. I also compared Billy to another character from Valley of the Dolls, Neely O’Hara. She is a talented actress who is seen as an object by men. Like Neely, Billy is also seen as an object but by the Tralfamadorians. To them Billy is merely an animal, not a person capable of feelings and intelligent thought, and is used for their entertainment, like a caged monkey at the zoo. This would also help explain the Question “ Why does the Tralfamadorian crowd go crazy when Bill uses the bathroom?” Just like we would react to a monkey at the zoo, we get excited because its something that people don’t get to see everyday and it is a unique experience.
The fact that Billy is in a mental ward after the war makes his story more plausible because that is something that has happened to soilders in the real world. Billy is a victim of extreme post traumatic stress disorder and his stay in the ward is used to further prove it to the readers. Vonnegut has wanted to show the disturbing side of war, the broken minds of soilders instead of the heroics, from the start of his novel and this is one of the ways in which he does. Also, there are a few reasons as to why humans cannot just forget and ignore the bad things in life and only concentrate on the good. First of all, if we were to ignore the bad in life we would continue to make those same mistakes that led to suffering to start with. Second, the bad things in life shape us as human beings; we are who we are because we have been through terrible things in our lives but we are made stronger for it. Also, if we only focused on and celebrated the good in life, then we wouldn't really know what was good, cherished, and valued.
A portion of this chapter that I found very interesting in particular was the Tralfamadorian's view on war. We already learned that they're opposed to free will and believe humans should just accept their fate, but now we discover their opinion on war and how they perceive it. Although they too have war on their planet, they choose to ignore it and focus on the more positive aspects of life. They believe that other parts of life are much too valuable to miss due to war and think humans should follow these guidelines. It makes me wonder how different life on Earth would be if our concept of war reflected the Tralfamadorian's and how much it would be different. Another thing I'd like to elaborate on is why the British treat war as if it were stylish, reasonable and fun. The British act this way simply because they can. They're are far more equipped and prepared for the war as opposed to the Americans, and they use this to their advantage. The Germans take such interest in them because they represent stereotypical Englishmen, in good condition health wise, and better trained. The American's are pretty much viewed as the "weak links" and the British, along with other nations, abuse this trait.
I believe the Englishmen kept the food and did not correct the error for a few reasons. The first reason being that they had the mentality that they were prisoners detached from the fighting on the fronts. This made them concerned with only their survival in the camp, rather than the troops doing the fighting. Secondly, the English officers seemed to have an attitude like they were better than everyone else in the camp because of their rankings and sophisticated background. I personally disagree with Campbell's thoughts on Americans. He portrays them as people who wouldn't protect one another at all in battle and survival. I think that is false. Brothers protect brothers. He has no room to speak anyway, choosing Nazism over his country.
I think that because Billy was admitted to a mental hospital after the war makes the story less plausible. Billy has PTSD. PTSD affects the part of the brain called the amygdala, which is known for its role in emotion, learning, and memory. He may think that things have happened, like being abducted by the Tralfamadorians, but really his memory is screwed from the aftermath of the war.
The Tralfamadorians read really strange. If books were just all clumped together to be "beautiful" I think I'd get really bored.. because the books I read aren't really "beautiful" but I love suspense and action, and their books don't have that. The Tralfamadorians are either super complex beings or really boring. Or both. Now that we know that Billy became super fascinated with science fiction, I think it is true that the Tralfamadorians are just a made up story he tells so he copes with war better. He was sick and tired of war, and sci-fi gives you fantasy worlds and it lets your imagination run free.
I am going to have to agree with Nola when it comes the plausibility of Billy's stories. I think it is crazy that someone could have that much belief in something that they end up in a mental hospital. It is very strange to comprehend. Also, I found it very interesting how Vonnegut took us back to the beginning of the novel by bring up the phrase "Children's Crusade". Excellent idea on his part, incredible way to keep tying the story together!
We have heard "The Children's Crusade" before from the other title of the book. Derby considers the soldiers "children" because he is a lot older than most of them. He is in his 40s while most of the soldiers are somewhere in their 20s maybe even younger. When the boys shave their faces, they are considered to look like babies and that is why they are always saying "war is fought by babies". These men are young. It now makes a lot more sense to me why the alternate name for the book is "The Children's Crusade". Before, I was thinking it would be about actual young kids, but now I know that it just symbolizes the younger soldiers in the war.
I would say that Billy knows sleeping with Montana is cheating, but I don't think he really cares. From my perspective, Billy doesn't seem to really like Valencia very much. He seems to be more in love with the money and fame he gets out of being with her. Although Montana is also full of fame, she is young, new, and attractive to him. He knows he is very far away from human civilization being on another planet and he will not be back anytime soon, so he feels like it is acceptable for him to sleep with Montana, whether Valencia would agree or not. Valencia is the last thing on his mind; this is like a dream come true for him.
When I read about the candle light and soap being made from human fat, I’ll admit I felt a little uneasy. I felt bad for the deceased whose bodies were being disrespected because part of them was either burned or washed down a sink. Even though I understand they needed candles and soap, and the fat was an abundant resource…I would feel wrong using it. I believe that Billy attending a mental ward after the war makes his story less plausible. He could have a wide range of mental disorders based on his claims of time traveling and going to a completely different planet that nobody has ever heard of. To me he sounds a bit schizophrenic. Some schizophrenic symptoms he shows are: disorganized behavior, and hearing, seeing, tasting, feeling, or smelling things that others do not experience which are called hallucinations. His whole idea of Tralfamadore is one big hallucination.
I think the Vonnegut adding the detail about the candles made from fat was on purpose to make a point. Yes, the Englishmen have set up a fine establishment in this camp and are very welcoming to the new soldiers, but in the end, a prison camp is still a prison camp. This detail about the gross candles shows that even though everything seems nice and humane in the camp, there is still a war going on, and people are still dying and sacrificing their lives for others’. So it goes. It really brings us back to reality. This message goes beyond the novel and relates to our lives as well. Even though most of us are fortunate and blessed with many good things in our lives, there are always people dying in wars and other things as well. We mustn’t ever forget about the horrible things going on in the world, even when our lives seem to be going well.
I was not surprised when I learned that Billy was in a mental institution after the war. By this point in the novel, I think everyone reading has already written Billy off as a crazy person, and this new information puts pieces of the puzzle together. Billy’s time travel stories, as implausible as they seemed before, are now even less believable. We now have proof that Billy is not completely right in the head. This is almost satisfying because the slim chance of Billy’s story actually being true decreases to almost nothing. It proves that our guesses of him having PTSD and other problems are most likely right. Although Billy’s intentions are pure and he is a pretty good person, he is just an unreliable character in the telling of his life story.
We have heard the term “Children’s Crusade” in the beginning of the novel. This was when O’Hares wife was promised the book being written about Dresden would be called The Childrens Crusade. This was going to be the title so that the book wouldn’t be confused with a heroic war story. I was just reading about the Children’s Crusade and what it was all about and it was really just a pointless sacrifice of young innocent life. A young boy inspired thousands of teens and children to march out of France and Germany to go to Jerusalem to join the Crusades. This ties into slaughterhouse five also because when the soldiers finally shaved, there was a comment made about how young and childlike they looked with no facial hair. They were really just children thrown into a war and expected to fight.
The way the Tralfamadorians view things is extremely complex. I like that Vonnegut told us how they saw things all at once instead of at specific points like we do. It’s strange to think about how someone or something, in this case, can see life all the way through. I really don’t know what to say about it except that it’s very thought provoking. Can you imagine looking up and seeing the entire life of a star from beginning to end? Or imagine looking at your spouse at 40 years old and you can see, relatively, where they will leave you. Not only is how they see things interesting but their literature is different too. To Billy, it looked like a bunch of clusters of information but as the Tralfamadore told him, it is a collection of moments as Billy said, but they see them all at once depicting a scene that has no moral, no cause or effect, no depth. It just is.
Science fiction helps to reinvent themselves and the universe by lacking the rules for how "things are meant to be". Science fiction is merely an umbrella term for "anything can happen"; so someone can disregard logic and create a universe and a person who meets their ideals. Even from a readers perspective, there's still that ability to become immersed in something that is unfamiliar. Perhaps by giving people the insight to look past the strict sense of just black and white, Science Fiction can inspire different ways of thinking. Therefore, a reinvention of convention occurs.
Humans can't live like the Tralfamadorians. Sure, the Tralfamadorians have some good ideas. Like how all moments past, present, and future always exist. No one is truly dead because they're alive in the past. Celebrating the good is a key aspect of life, but you simply can't ignore the bad. Turning a blind eye to crimes would create a mess. Plus, everyone has a different idea of "good." Good to an evil person might be murder. Good to the government might be more spending. Not everyone can agree - goods to some are bads to others. Utopian societies are all fine and dandy on paper, but there's no way it would work. If there wasn't any sadness, happiness could not be achieved.
Humans can’t ignore the bad and celebrate the good because we would never learn from our mistakes and past bad decisions to change them in the future. Like in history, if we never talked about the bad that went on in the past there is a high possibility that we could do it again, but now since we’ve learned from it we try to prevent it from happening again. Say your children don’t listen to you and you don’t reprimand them, they will never learn what they are doing is wrong and will never change it, but if you put them in timeout or take something of theirs away every time they don’t listen they will learn to listen more often.
Yes Billy is still cheating on Valencia by sleeping with Montana because even though he’s on a different planet he’s still married. The Tralfamadorians didn’t force him to do that with Montana therefore if he was worried about cheating he shouldn’t have done it. Billy being on a different planet doesn’t absolve him from the fact that it is still considered cheating because when he said “I do” he was agreeing to not cheat no matter where you are. That’s like saying since I was in a different country am I absolved from the fact that I was cheating on my husband or wife?
In the beginning I found it a little peculiar that the tourist wanted to know how many suicides were committed each year by jumping off the Grand canyon. Why did they want to know? If this is a true statistic then this actually surprises me due to the fact I would of thought there would be more. Knowing that Billy was emitted to the ward after the war I would say this makes his story less plausible and that he could just being trying to cope with all the messed up stuff in his head. I am not sure of the significance of when Derby mentions the children's crusade but I do recall hearing that from Mary O'Hare in the begging of the book. Why does Vonnegut include pictures in the novel on pages 122,125,and 209? these pictures have nothing in common from what I can tell so far! I found the New Testament to be interesting and thought provoking. Some might look at that in disgust but being as open minded as possible it does make since in a weird way.
Billy describes his marriage with Valencia as a bearable one. Why he would settle for a subpar marriage is beyond me. But let's face it, you can't expect anything when it comes to Billy. Although Billy is very unpredictable, it's easy to say however that Billy does not seem like the kind to get too emotionally involved with anything especially his marriage with Valencia. In this case, I think that Billy does not care that he is sleeping with Montana. I don't think he would bother to take too much time into contemplating whether he cheated on Valencia or not because it happened on a different planet and such. I just think that Billy cheated.
The fact that Billy was in a mental house after the war makes his story less plausible because it says that he is probably insane. The fact that he needed help because he was so insane makes it seem like his story could be made up. Maybe Billy really does think that all of this time travelling stuff is happening to him, just because of his mental illness. If humans ignored the bad and only celebrated the good, they wouldn’t really know how good the good things really are. If they had no bad things to compare the good things to, they would just think good is normal. There would be nothing else for them to have besides good so good would just be the norm for everyone. Billy doesn’t think that he is cheating on Valencia, because it happens in another world. I think he is cheating on her though. He sleeps with another woman. No matter what world it is in, it is still cheating.
In my personal opinion, cheating is cheating. I think that there is no excuse, none at all, for cheating on a significant other. In my mind, cheaters are cheaters and they always will be. So yes, Billy is cheating on Valencia when he is sleeping with Montana. Sure, they are on the planet of Tralfamadore and he is far away from his real wife, but that doesn't break him from the restraints and bindings of holy matrimony, or in other words, marriage. Marriage to me is sacred, not something that should be tampered with or fooled around with. Sure, Billy and Montana are the only human beings on Tralfamadore and the Tralfamadorians want to see them mate, but Billy is married to Valencia. To me, there is no excuse or easy way of saying that Billy is a cheater. And on top of all of that, Montana carrying Billy's child...well that is just icing on this adultery cake!
Billy and Valencia don't have a normal relationship. Their conversations are short and not very meaningful. Valencia seems to love Billy much more than he loves her. Which may be a factor to Billy having sex with Montana. There is no real reason explaining why he does this but we can guess on multiple details. He is on another planet with one other human being, some type of attraction is bound to occur. Billy could also get mixed up with all of his time traveling that he could of believed that he was in a time even before he was married to Valencia.
While others may disagree, Billy’s sleeping with Montana is still cheating on Valencia, and while she may be no prize, the two are wed. They said vows. Vows that [should] stand firm in sickness and in health, for rich or for poor, not, “Oh, this whole marriage thing sounds like a good idea today, I think I ought to give it a go.” Despite the fact that Billy is being held captive on Tralfamadore, it doesn’t eradicate what he has with Valencia back on Earth. Things might be different if he had no memory of his life on Earth while he was on Tralfamadfore for he would not know he was doing any wrong, but this is obviously not the case.
Ignoring the bad and celebrating the good, definitely a very challenging task, as well as it is not always for the best. Being a teenager, a somewhat decent analogy could be if you ignore your acne will it just go away and leave you clean and happy? sometimes yes, but in many cases no. Also, many people have changed their lives by extreme amounts, even saved their own lives, or at least extended it by accepting the bad. For example, people who have realized they are getting overweight to a hazardous level and have made the choice to exercise and diet and choose to be better with their choices end up being happier. It's a proven fact. Good comes with the bad you just have to accept the bad and conquer it. Some say ignorance is bliss, but for the rest of us it sucks. Moral of my story is there is always good in bad so why not look for it rather than ignore it. I may be treading thin ice, but I just saw "The Purge Anarchy" and the movie doesn't look like it's about finding the good in bad situations, but there actually is a whole story built off that. I won't say any spoilers, but it reminded me of this Tralfamadorian belief.
I believe the flaw in our society is that we become far too attached to material things. We allow these things to control our lives, and unlike the Tralfamadorians when something bad happens it isn't as simple as just focusing on the good because we were already so invested in what the thing was. Say my iPhone broke... this would be quite the catastrophe. I have so much invested in it, such as events, my work schedule, communication with my friends and so on. It would simply be such a set-back if I were to lose it. It's hard to focus on the good when the bad affects you so much, or at least how much you think. In the aspect of WWII it is a different scenario. Mistakes and evil to the extent of the war serve no good purposes minus the opportunity to learn. I understand the importance of moving on from past events, but it is simply ignorant to act like they never happened. As nice as it would be to blank out all negative aspects of life and only focus on the good, I just can not see how it could possibly lead to a successful life.
The other main idea that this chapter threw at me was one that I have very strong feelings about. When Billy slept with Montana while already having a wife I lost all respect for him. When it comes to relationships there is not a single more cowardly and disgusting act then cheating. As human-beings whether we want to admit it or not we are in full control of our decisions. Being the son of a counselor who deals with flawed relationships every day I hear and learn much from the problems patients of hers have. As Zack said in the post above problems are inevitable and it is incredible what people are willing to work through to have a healthy relationship. Cheating is the one exception to this in my eyes although. There is no working through it to me. I am also a firm believer of karma, and Montana being impregnated by Billy... Yeah..
On to this rather popular discussion of Billy sleeping with Montana while being wed to Valencia. I have to say that our actions define who we are. our choices can't be taken back. This reminds me of the homeroom activity Mrs. Heartz had us do, where you squeeze a bunch of toothpaste out and try to put it back in with a cotton swab. In that case it symbolized gossip, but I feel like it can work here as well. It's easy to perform an action like cheating on your wife, but to take it back is near impossible. My opinion is he screwed up on a moral astronomical scale, but divorces happen every day. You can't just say vows and expect everything to be perfect from there on. Problems are inevitable, either you fight through together or you won't get very far. I believe the statistic right now is 36% of marriages fail. And for the most part it's because one of the two or both need simply more in their life. After everything Billy has been through he find some sort of "more" added to his life when he is with Montana. Excluding his captive situation of course.
I like how Marla worded the Tralfamadorian's view of war. "We already learned that they're opposed to free will and believe humans should just accept their fate...". The conflicting views from different parties can always add to the plot and make the novel more interesting.
i think its funny that derby is reading the red badge of courage because its about desertion and leaving your group which is sort of what billy did i thought it was cute. i find every interaction with the British because of the way they act. they do this weird pious thing that makes them seem as tho they are more educated more rich and like they will never see any of the repercussions of the war. i also love the children crusade part because they are blind to how desperate the war is that they are sending forty year olds and teens to the front. i find this funny. also i find it funny that they don't return the food but instead save it and make them selves fit even tho they aren't needed.
Since Billy is in mental ward it makes his story much less plausible. People only go to mental wards when they are insane and out of touch with reality. Since Billy is put in the mental ward it shows he is living in a fantasy world. This is where he gets his completely unbelieveable stories about the tralfamodaria. Also, science fiction is a big help to Billy after the war. Science fiction helps him re invent himself by crating a distraction so he doesn't have to deal with the stresses of the war.
The English find war to be "stylish, reasonable, and fun." In my opinion that is very disrespectful to all who have lost their own lives or to any who have lost loved ones in war.
One reason they might believe this is because they where captured early in the war and were treated with better conditions than those captured later. The fact that the stocked up all of this food was probably a smart thing to do because, who knew how long they would be there. On the other hand, it was selfish because many soldiers starved to death, they didn't have to give it all away, just some and still had more than enough. Even if the English didnt experience the atrocities of war, they sure did hear about them and still only cared for themselves.
The British didn't have the same feelings about the war as others because what they were experiencing was completely different. For example, when they were held as "prisoners" they were given food and treated well, thus not experiencing the full hardships of the war. What they were experiencing was not really "war" at all. On the topic of ignoring the bad and celebrating the good, I completely believe it depends on the event. In some cases, focusing on the bad and learning from it helps us to move on and become better. In the case of war, the bad does nothing but keep us feeling the awful things that came along with it. The fact that Billy was in a mental ward after the war makes his story quite a bit less plausible. Although he is completely sure these events happened, we can not be sure of the accuracy of his thoughts and stories.
Cinderella was an incredibly famous ballet composed by Sergei Prokofiev in 1940, picking up where Peter Tchaikovsky (The Nutcracker, Swan Lake) started 70 years earlier. Five years after a famous rendition of Romeo and Juliet, Prokofiev began the score for Cinderella in 1940 and quit the same year, right after the start of WWII, and began working on a suitable alternative, an opera, War and Peace. But, after only four years, Prokofiev started working on Cinderella again, and finished in 1945. It premiered in 1945 at the Bolshoi Ballet, and was based on the Perrault version of the fairytale, the same version that Walt Disney used to make the famous animated movie Cinderella in 1950. Prokofiev and the Bolshoi Ballet Company brought a much need artistic escape from the horrors of the war, just like the British soldiers did while they were held captive together.
In my opinion, humans cannot just ignore the bad, because they think too much. We think too much, I should say. When there is something awful occurring in the latest current events, what we see on the news, what's happening out on a battlefield, we cannot ignore it. We want to help, to solve the problem. However, one man's solvent is another man's problem. In the last chapters previous, it was stated that war is inevitable. That we, no matter how hard we try to prevent it, it will always be there. Now, that is how the Traldamadorains see things, and they know that they can't fight it, so they might as well celebrate the good while they still have it. But humans, we just try to fix everything, but that's not how we find the "peace" that Billy describes the Tralfamadorians have.
So Billy was in a mental ward after the war...Does this make his story more or less plausible?
Why do you suppose Billy is so averse to seeing his mother? Is the explanation of feeling guilty sufficient, or is there more to it?
Billy being in a mental ward makes the whole story more believable. After war many soldiers suffer from PTSD, yes? Believable that he is having flashbacks, depression, PTSD, etc.
Not seeing his mother adds a bit of a twist but also makes the whole thing a lot more believable. In my opinion he isn't willing to see her because he is ashamed. Or maybe she brings back his bad times from his childhood? Who knows. I think she is a reminder of his failures, and he feels guilty for not wanting to live. His mother brought him into the world, and raised him and had him live. So maybe he feels like it isn't his right to not want to live/kill himself?
I believe that the British treat the war as stylish and fun because they were among the few prisoners that were taken captive at the very beginning of the war. Food, resources, and a bed to sleep on has been there for them basically the whole war. Whereas the other soldiers have been brutally facing the elements of the battlefield. War in this era (WWII) or earlier was seen as an act of valor, and brought great honor to one’s family and themselves. So, I can definitely see how the British see the war as stylish and fun because they haven’t witnessed the actual war, and the tragedy it brings. Next, with Billy in a mental state that isn’t so good right now I believe it makes the story truer. Billy is just delusional and it is almost like someone or something is trying to tell him something through his hallucinations.
The fact that Billy had to go into a mental institute after the war makes his whole story even less likely. He is proving that he has mental problems and that his childhood and the war is not something his brain can handle. However, assuming that his story is real, then I do not believe that his sleeping with Montana is really considered cheating. He was an alien on a planet and starved for human affection. He also had no clue at the time that he would ever be returned to earth. Also, considering that he didn't even want to marry Valencia in the first place, and he was not in a place where the moral codes on things like sex seem to be very high it was not a horrible thing of him to do. On a different note, the grave stone with the engraving "Everything was beautiful and nothing hurt" on it made me believe that he was sugar coating it for her. He knows he can't really talk to her about the war, so he makes up an easier way to answer her questions.
Billy being in a mental ward definitely makes his story less believable to the reader. If someone were to tell me stories of time travel after being in a mental institution, the chances of me believing such tales would plummet. I was already a nonbeliever, but learning Billy was in psychological distress vanquished every one of my thoughts that his story could be true. Billy suffers from PTSD and it is quite obvious by this point in the novel that his time in the war is the cause of his mental instability. I believe Billy to be an unreliable narrator for this reason. I will definitely be weary of the truthfulness of Billy’s observations in his life for the remaining part of this novel.
The story is starting to make more sense now that I know Billy had been in a mental hospital after the war. Billy has had an interesting life and many stressful times in his life up until that point it’s a wonder that he didn’t have a mental breakdown sooner in life. In a way I feel bad for him, he went to a war and was placed in harsh conditions, was told that he would be one of Lazzaro’s victims, and his childhood stories make it seem like his upbringing may have been rough on him. I found it strange that he would cover his head when his mother would visit him. I keep thinking on why he wouldn’t want to see or speak to his mother and the only idea I can come up with would be that he might have felt some neglect as a child and doesn’t really want her to be around now because she wasn’t there for him when he was younger.(That may be totally wrong, but it is what I was thinking) I don’t believe he feels guilty about not seeing her in fact it seems like he doesn’t care to see her at all. Valencia is an interesting character. I love that Billy said he knew he was definitely going crazy when he asked her to marry him, which seems like the perfect description of any relationship to me. I also like that she asks him what kind of silver pattern he wants while he is in the hospital, she is either super crazy about stuff they get and want wants to get organized or she is trying to keep his mind off of his hospital stay, but I’m thinking questions like that may drive a man to permanently stay at a mental hospital.
I am still having a hard time figuring out the Tralfamadorians and their way of life. Their way of life seems simple and yet so complicated at the same time. I think that Billy is dreaming about the alien abductions and he actually wishes that is how planet Earth would operate because they seem to have it all figured out with no wars and their book makes sense to them. I found the Montana Wildhack situation very strange and awkward. I also believe no matter what planet you are on if you are sleeping with someone other than the person you are married to or dating than you are cheating on them.
The Englishmen kept the abundance of food parcels because it gave them a certain sort of power. People won't do a darn thing for you unless you have something to give them in return. Also, when you have in your possession something that someone else needs desperately, there is very little that they won't do for it. With the Germans, the Englishmen should've been completely powerless, but with that one little extra zero they basically became the big men on campus. When handed a free ice-cream, a very small percentage of people would turn it down. The cast majority of people would scarf it down and crave more. That is called hunger. Not for ice-cream, in our Englishmen's case, but rather for power. Why would anyone give that up?
I wish that we humans would be able to do as the Tralfamadorians do- it could make so many things easier to cope with. Instead of worrying about whether you fail or pass the test, one would be able to say "Hey! I knew the answer to the one question- that's something!" Unfortunately, many of us humans would see that as wishful thinking or covering up for mistakes. Humans tend to focus more on the negative, because we hate the possibility of being made to look like a fool. We would rather sit under a rain cloud of worry and pity. When we think about the negative, we come up with potential situations and ways to solve them to keep our reaction from making us seem like an idiot or seem bad. Humans do not want to seem stupid. We are always striving for perfection. Which is a shame, but it's reality. And sadly, those who focus on the good are seen as either dreamers or as "softies" because they give praise.
Usually, because of this, people are criticized more for the mistakes they make and are never praised for good. Take my work environment, for an example. We have a machine there that we use to make shakes, and it's from the Flintstones age. We have dubbed it Satan. It has to be taken apart every night, and each individual piece has to be cleaned. Then in the morning, they have to be cleaned again and then the machine must be put back together. No one ever wants to do it, which leaves me to do it. Never once am I thanked for it or when I was the only one who knew how to take it apart and assemble it, I was never acknowledged for showing the others how to do it. However, when I managed to spill a container of lemonade because someone spooked me - I never heard the end of it. If we were to focus more on the good, more people would probably do things the "good" way so that they could receive recognition and praise for it. Positive reinforcement.
The fact that Billy was in a mental hospital after returning from the war makes his story much more believable. There are so many stories about soldiers, even today, suffering from post traumatic stress syndrome after coming home from the war so it definitely makes the story more plausible. The men in war see things and live through things that no human should ever see or live in. Dead bodies left and right, men out for murder, viciously killing one another, and their own men dying before their own eyes. To make things worse, they live with barely enough food to survive, no houses, and pieces of material that are considered good clothing. Anyone that would have to live in these inhumane conditions would be a little distraught.
In life everyone is so consumed in the bad things that happen to us. Our parents scold us more for bad behaviors than they praise us for good, we watch things on television and on the news and it is all about the bad things in life, and that is what we remember. The Tralfamadorians's advice is hard for humans to follow because they have never lived to focus on the good things. It seems so simple and so much better to just focus on what is good but humans find this task so difficult because it is not what we know and is not how we have ever lived so it is difficult to change; especially when everyone and everything around us is still focused on bad rather than praising the good.
I did find it very amusing that the Tralfamadorian went crazy when Billy went to the bathroom. This reaction did not take much thought to figure out, at least to me it didn't. The Tralfamadorian crowd is obviously not used to seeing this sort of thing on a daily basis. It is very cool to them to see how a human being does this sort of thing, as opposed to how they do it. On another note, I thought that Howard W. Campbell, Jr.'s thoughts on Americans and war were quite strange. I mean, he is an American, yet he hates America, and all of the people in America. He is fighting against America also, which I don't understand. Usually in war, at least I can hope, people fight for their own country, not against it. I guess that may be a bad example though, because of all the issues in the Middle East, but for the most part, his views just seem wrong.
I think Billy being admitted to the mental hospital makes the story less plausible. This is only because it leaves you wondering whether this is all in his mind or if he has gone completely insane. I think Billy travels in order to subdue the pain from the war and ignore the bad in life. I think Billy is cheating on Montana whether it's in his mind, or not. If he is trying to escape from the bad why would he escape the one he loves? Billy needs to live to focus on the good and block on the bad. You can't live to be happy if you can't let go of what is making you upset.
I think that Billy being in a mental house makes his story less plausible! Billy needed help because he was so insane but it makes me wonder if his stories are made up. Maybe Billy's stories are true? I'm still trying to figure that out! Billy sleeping with another woman is a huge no in my book. I believe that cheating is cheating no questions about it! Sleeping with another woman is wrong and just because Billy thinks it happens in another world doesn't make it right or give him and excuse to use when Valencia finds out.
It’s hard for me to judge whether Billy’s story is plausible because in real life it is clearly not, so to answer this question I need to be able to play along with the book. With that being said the narrator seems to be more reliable than Billy so the majority of my thoughts have to do with the things the narrator says. I know that the narrator doesn’t trust Billy because he continually says things like “Billy Pilgrim says” at the beginning of most of the chapters. This alone makes me want to question how real Billy’s story is. Since finding out that he has been in a mental hospital, I am more inclined to not believe anything he says about Tralfamadore. Now that I think about it he never tells how or when he got back from Tralfamadore, so that’s another strike against Billy’s story. Now switching gears to Billy and his mother at the mental hospital, I liked his explanation of feeling guilty. This may partly be because I sort of predicted it as I was reading that section, but also because it made a lot of sense to me. Of course he feels guilty, he knows how hard his mother worked to give him a good life and he just can’t help not liking life. He feels ungrateful.
Billy being in a mental hospital does make the story less plausible since he is so mentally disturbed. Valencia does sound much like a prize in the book and more like a convenience to Billy than anything else. I question if there really is any romance between them. I mean he calls her ugly, but marries her knowing that life will be ok. Wouldn’t he want to be more than wonderful in his life if he could be? I don’t believe he cheated on her, such as being on another planet. Also, humans can’t ignore the bad because we try and learn from our past and try and prevent similar things from happening again, unlike the Tralfamadorians who keep letting the world end because of one of their own.
We will never be able to ignore the bad things in life and celebrate the good. It's an evolutionary survival instinct that most if not all animals have. Take the example of food poisoning for instance; If you eat steak all the time, you're going to eat more steak. If you have a steak and you come down with food poisoning from it, chances are the smell and flavor will make you nauseous. It's your bodies way of saying "Don't do that again". Therefore, you will only recognize the bad, no matter how great the good was at one time. Another example (Which is also relevant to current news) would be plane crashes and the news. Hundreds, if not thousands of planes take off and land safely everyday, and the news won't cover that. Now when a plane gets shot down by a ground-to-air missile and everybody dies, the news will be all over that, and people will become more afraid of plane rides because of one incident. Because that's bad and we don't want to let go of the bad.
In chapter five there is a small section on Christianity that was very interesting. I take great interest in all faiths and am very curious about how people believe in certain religions. I would consider myself an atheist, therefore I often question the faith of all people. One thing I particular find interesting is how followers of certain religions are highly hypocritical. Living in the United States most people I know believe in some type of Christianity, but I am sure this is true for other religions as well. During a Tralfamadorian study, they question why Christians find it so easy to be cruel. I am sure this is not true for all Christians, but I often wonder this. Being a non-believer of the Christian faith, I find myself picking out judgmental and those who find themselves “superior”, who claim to follow Christianity. In my school alone there are bullies who find it easy to be cruel, yet they place themselves on a pedestal of purity claiming to be angels just because they are Christians. Although many will deny this, it is very true, and quite sickening that people can think of themselves so highly while belittling others.
In chapter five of the novel, we discover that Derby was reading the Red Badge of Courage. This is significant because both Billy Pilgrim and Henry Fleming are in the same shoes throughout their war experience. Both main characters want to run away from everyone and be left behind with a combination of fear and exhaustion. Both characters feel like there is no hope for them, and would prefer to be left to die. In another portion of the chapter, Billy is in a mental hospital, which just piles onto the credibility of his stories being imagined. It seems as though most stories of the Tralfamdorians could actually be from the mental hospital, as the equipment of the Tralfamadorians sounds very similar to that of a mental ward. Lastly, the Tralfamadorians give a very positive tip in this chapter, being to forget the bad but remember the good. This is a great thought in theory, however, in most cases, forgetting the bad is not easy to do. If we could forget the bad all of the time, there would be no way to improve ourselves based on those bad memories.
“They [Englishmen] wrestled the Americans toward the shed door affectionately, filling the night with manly blather and brotherly rodomontades. They called them ‘Yank,’ told them ‘Good show,’ promised them that ‘Jerry was on the run,’ and so on. Billy Pilgrim wondered dimly who Jerry was,” (pg. 121). Here Vonnegut again uses words that make us think. According to contex clues (and also Webster’s dictionary), “rodomontades” is a noun meaning something vain, or a bragging speech. This word gives the impression that Englishmen were blustery and self-absorbed men. Following descriptions like “they were so elated by their own hospitality” (121) the reader is given a poor image of the Englishmen who take wartime and the cruelty of war lightly. Also noted at the end of the quote, “Jerry” is a derogatory slang term used for Germans, who at the time, were on the run. Note that this was used before when Billy’s coat got caught on fire and an Englishman was there. He said “’My God—what have they done to you lad?’” (pg. 97) He first wondered if it was a joke, his coat being on fire, and he told him not to allow Jerry to do things that humiliate him. This was just before he passed out and was carried to the hospital.
At this point in the book, it still seems like Billy is doing most of his time-traveling when he's at his physical lowest. Interesting.
I find it entirely likely that the Americans who served in the war were ruder that their constituents from England. This might have more to do with the fact that most of the Americans were privates and most of the British were officers, than with pure nationality.
As for our obsession with peeing, we're probably laughing at the ape's comfort with public urination or defecation. "He/she doesn't know any better! LOL!" Of course, to the ape, he/she doesn't really realize he's in a public setting, or at least doesn't consider it public. Same goes for the humans on Tralfamadore.
I find Billy’s flashbacks from his twelve year old vacation out west very interesting. It seems as though his actions as a kid resemble his current characteristics. In both ages, Billy portrays a timid, shy, worrisome and frightened boy. Billy’s younger self was so frightened when near the Grand Canyon, that when touched by his mother, he instantly peed his pants. I also find it intriguing that Vonnegut added the part about the Frenchman’s suicide question. I think that Vonnegut added this in the book because it would have been something that older Billy would have asked. Sadley to say, Billy seems very pessimistic, especially when you consider his lackadaisical actions when being a lost soldier.
Billy and Valecina have a very off relationship. She is so in love with a man who appears to care very little in return. This explains a possibility as to why he cheated on his wife with Montana. I feel like it is very difficult to know Billy’s true intentions that night. Billy may not have strong feelings towards Valencia, but throughout the novel up to this point, he doesn’t seem to have strong feelings towards anything at all, besides the Tralfamadorians and the War. Vonnegut makes his wife seem more like an extra quality, not someone who many of his feelings are devoted to. It’s very hard to justify cheating, but in justifying his feelings, Pilgrim is not portrayed to have strong feelings towards anything in the present or past (with the exception of the war). Maybe he cheated because his present life on earth means nothing to him because it is a very small part of his life that comes and goes uncontrolleably as his mind pleases. And if his life means very little, it’s a possibility that his emotions and morals do as well. Billy has given up with the fight of his mind, this may be another example of how Billy just gives into whatever his mind tells him to.
The Englishmen had friend-like relationships with the Germans holding them captive because they had been there for such an extended period of time. Since they had been there for 4 years, and food was less scarce, they were able to save up to have an abundance of food and supplies. The mere fact that the Englishmen had made friends with the Germans and had been there for many years proves the point that they haven't actually seen the war the same way the Americans have. In fact, they make fun of how childish and weak the Americans look when the Englishmen hadn't suffered symptoms of the war like the Americans had. Making fun of the Americans and having an abundance of food and sources gave the Englishmen the same feeling a bully might get, which is a feeling of power. They can easily tease and taunt the Americans for being weak, but they will hesitate to give them food because it would make them equals. All in all, the Englishmen refuse to give the troops food because they crave power.
I think that Billy being a resident of a mental hospital definitely makes his story less believable. Anyone in a mental ward is questioned of their sanity. He made claims that he has been to a planet that no one has heard of and that he can time travel. I now believe that the Tralfamadore is completely made up. To anyone else these stories sound ridiculous. In this chapter when I read the part about the soap being made from human fat, I felt pretty grossed out. It makes me sad that after a person would die, their body would be mistreated like that. I understand that they needed soap and candles but that would be a terrible process for the people making it.
I feel as though the Tralfamadorians look at Billy with amazement because they've never seen such a "creature." All they've ever known is their own little world and they look at the earthlings as strange beings that should be displayed in captivity, much like we do with animals in zoos. I also get the vibe that the Tralfamadorians look down on the humans and see them as foolish individuals with no intelligence. It appears that all the fighting and killing that the earthlings particpate in only adds to the Tralfamadorians opinions of them. In a way I kind of agree with the Tralfamadorians. We as humans can be very greedy and selfish people who will do anything for money and power. Even if it means killing or harming inncocent people. I like Tralfamadorian's idea of peace.
The fact that Billy takes residence in a mental hospital definitely makes his stories less plausible. First of all, no one would ever truly believe that there is another world that someone visited and has no proof to provide. People would think a person who says something to this affect believes they believe in a mental hospital. If people knew Billy was in this hospital they would probably think to themselves "Okay, that makes sense." It is unfortunate but true that residents of mental facilities lose sincerity and possibly their authority which has happened to Billy. Even if the events that are remarked upon were true, no one would, or does, believe Billy.
I believe that Billy is hesitant to see his mother, or even look her in the eye for that matter, because he is ashamed he is throwing his life away right before her very eyes. Billy has no desire to enjoy the life he has been given and it's killing him to see his mother have to watch him go through such a dark place when he has no control over his thoughts and emotions. In addition, his mother spent the majority of his life caring, supporting, and looking out for Billy now all he does is sit around like a lump on a log. In my opinion, it is a very selfish thing Billy is doing because it's hurting not only himself, but everyone around him as well. Billy's "emotional depression" is altering the life of not only his mother's, but Valencia's as well. I know that if my soon-to-be husband acted like Billy does he would no longer be my future husband. I feel for Valencia and Billy's mother because all they're asking for is love and attention but Billy can't even give that.
When Billy asks how the universe ends, the Tralfamadorian replies that it was due to an experiment with flying saucer fuel. Billy questions the Tralfamadorian, “If you know this...isn’t there some way you can prevent it?” The Tralfamadorian explains that the moment has always happened, and always will. I love that Billy asks this question because it is very hard to understand. If a Tralfamadorian can exist in any moment in time, then why can’t it interfere with this life detrimental moment? It still does not make sense why the Tralfamadorians can not alter the future. On the other hand, the Tralfamadorian gives Billy a fascinating outlook on the peace in one's world. When explaining if the Tralfamadorian world has wars, the Tralfamadorian states that they do but they try to not focus on them. He also states that they spend eternity looking at the pleasant moments. It is nice to look at the positive things in life, but you cannot just all out ignore the negatives that do arise. You must accept all of the negative and disastrous things that happen life, in order to solve the answer to a content life.
I believe that Billy is most definitely cheating on Valencia when he sleeps with Montana. To me personally, nothing justifies such acts. Marriage is a vow to be with one person, and one person only for your entire life, and going against that I feel is one of the greatest offenses in life. It may have happened on a different planet, however, it was still the same Billy. The same Billy who was fully aware of the decisions he was making. Cheating disgusts me, and the fact that Billy impregnated Montana only makes it worse.
Even though Billy is on a different planet, he still cheated on Valencia. Sure, what Billy and Valencia have can't really be called love, but he is married to her regardless and should always take her into account. To him, Valencia is a convenience more than anything and once he realises that this convenience of his is gone, he figures it's okay to sleep with someone else. The fact that he and Montana are in a different world is no excuse, because Billy is fully aware of what he is doing. The Tralfamadorians don't force him into it, either, so it's not like he had no choice. However, in the end it is for Billy to live with. What's done is done, and how he acts after his actions is what will matter in the longrun.
While the Tralfamadorians advice to humans(being to "ignore the bad and celebrate the good") is a good way of looking at life, it contradicts what makes humans "human". Throughout the novel, the Tralfamadorians are kind of described as greater beings to humans (i.e. being able to acknowledge the fourth dimension);however, they appear to be far from understanding the human race. On top of their inability to comprehend time, Tralfamadorians don't seem to realize a major part of humans: the strength of feelings and emotions. Just like how a "good" event can put someone in a great mood for days, a "bad" event can make someone feel horrible for the days as well. Also, blocking out the "bad" and hiding it behind the "good" can lead to negative effects on one's psyche. Eventually, holding all the "bad" in could lead to an emotional breakdown, just like the one that Billy experienced. In conclusion, humans need to experience the "bad" to truly know the "good".
Billy and Montana have an interesting relationship, for a lack of words. It may be considered an affair. It may be considered a literal display of affection. It may be considered as a lack of self-control. It might even be all three! The only sure thing is that their relationship can be digested by different perspectives. On the one side, Billy and Valencia don't have the best marriage, the Tralfamadorians trapped him in a zoo, and Billy was returned to Earth without skipping a beat. Yet, Billy did say his vows to Valencia, cheating is cheating, and Billy shouldn't use being on a different planet as an excuse. The consensus in the past comments seem to all agree that Billy is cheating. I would simply like to bring to light that, in such uncommon circumstances as these, how many people would be in a state-of-mind to make good decisions? Not to mention Billy's PTSD and mental problems...
I think that since Billy is a resident of a mental hospital makes his story harder to believe fully without having other suspicions. Billy has so many far fetched fantasy's that he has said has happened and tells of a planet that he has been to that I think it is all made up. How can he have gone to a planet that no one has heard of at all. Also that he has PTSD does not help his case in trying to convince everyone of these things. It makes it very hard for me to follow along with the story. With that said this story has a strange narrator and an even worse plot.
The British never experienced true war. They never saw the horrific scenes, blood, or death that most saw. As they were some of the first prisoners of war, there was an ample amount of food, and they were safer than those out on the front lines. They never experienced the gore and death most do. Thus, they had a glamorous vision of war. This ties in with the reading of the "Red Badge if Courage." It's ironic to the story of the soldiers, as it's about the horrors that war brings. Though, Vonnegut includes this to push his anti-war thoughts and ideas in the book. It also demonstrates how most everyone is feeling about the war. That they are done with it and the tragedy it brings.
Howard Campbell, Jr.’s writing about Americans and war seemed a bit harsh to me. It is clear that Campbell has a deep loathing for the American social structure and general behavior. However, as malicious as his opinion seems, there is truth to his thoughts. Rich folks tend to look down on the less fortunate, and every day there are homeless people on the streets who barely get any charity from the rest of us because we think of them as not worth our time. Our nation’s wealth is so concentrated among few people, and those people think they deserve it and think they are better than the rest of the country. As for the part about the war prisoners, Cambell’s beliefs have some accuracy to them. He says that Americans have no self-respect and are complete cravens when it comes to being war prisoners. They only focus on the bad things they are going through and don’t care about what the rest of the world is doing. Campbell’s observations coincide with the Tralfamadorian’s that humans cannot focus on the good and they only concentrate on what horrible things are happening to them.
I think Billy is full of fear because that's the way he was born. He does not possess god-given courage. This explains how later, when he joins the army, he is only a chaplains assistant. He is unlikely to see any action with this position, and this suits his cowardly nature. It also explains how when he was stranded with the scouts and Weary, he was more inclined to give up rather than fight for his life.
I think the British make war out to be something stylish, reasonable and fun to get more people interested in being in the war. Soldiers are much more into the fighting if they actually want to be there.
People tend to fear the unknown. I think it's interesting that there are some young children who have no fear at all. They'll do whatever you tell them to. Heights, bugs, and other things people tend to be scared of mean nothing. Where are some people, such as Billy, are scared of a lot of things. I've always wondered what determines someones fears. I think it's an interesting topic.
Every time I read about Billy being in the zoo enclosure I can't help but think that he is crazy because he almost enjoys it. If I was taken captive by aliens the last place I would want to be is in a zoo or used as an experiment. Weird. The Tralfamadorian books seem creative to me, especially because they seem similar to star patterns or horoscopes. When I started reading about the Americans traveling to the British officers camp I forgot all about the war, it seemed to me they were almost at a camp on the road to recovery. Sad to say they were not so lucky. When the officers put on the play Cinderella, it seemed weird that the men would enjoy it at all. I mean they are soldiers of war and it's odd that they would be acting out a princess story when they are supposed to be strong, brave warriors. This is the chapter that i start to really dislike the author Kilgore Trout and all of his ridiculous science-fiction novels. Maybe if Billy hadn't read the novels, he wouldn't be having such weird hallucinations. I find it odd that Billy keeps taking about Edgar Derby's death, he has referred to it multiple times throughout the story and i'm not sure why...
When he talks about science fiction helping them "re-invent themselves and their universe", he's referring to the fact that science fiction is a world of great imagination and creativity. Using this people take themselves to a different place, they escape the evil of our world and go to distant magical lands. Science fiction is about discovery and exploration, not the problems facing most people today. Like Derby's problem with the war. Derby called the war the "Children's Crusade", which we also saw when the narrator talked about the title for a book about the war. It is just one of the many things that we see reappearing or connecting to other parts of the book. The book also talks about how humans can't follow the advice of the Tralfamadorians. We can not do this because unlike the Tralfamadorians, we see only a single instance at a time. We can only try to remember the good, but the bad is still right in front of us.
I finally see why Billy talks about aliens and all. The darn bed mate of his Eliot Rosewater got him into Kilgore Trout. This science-fiction author who has written a lot of books on outer space and aliens and all. Its funny though that Billy was said to be going crazy which I think in the years that passed became true. I feel as though Billy insanity wouldn't have been as bad if Rosewater hadn't have introduced him to that author. Though I must say Rosewater couldn't have known that Billy would have taken this science-fiction world he introduced to him and whole heartedly believe that their are aliens in outer space that communicate with him. In still believe though that these aliens are just Billy taken what he knows and using it for a coping mechanism from all the trauma he has experienced in his life.
I thought it was really funny that the English were treated so well. I mean as Billy said that the Germans were fascinated with them even though they were technically the enemy. It was like the Germans treated with Royalty with all that food and space they were given. I also found humorous that the English prisoners acted like high royalty who could get anything they desired. In contrast to the Russians who couldn't get the Germans to like them and escape plans were terrible that revolved around trucks that never go by. I loved this part of the chapter because it showed the contrast between us allies and how we were treated by our enemies.
As soon as the englishmen were introduced in the novel they were all cheering and singing happily together knowing that they were prisoners of war. also as the americans were having in awful time holding down the food, the Englishmen were laughing and enjoying the show. It seems that they have fun to get through the worst of the war together. To show that the Germans can not get the best of them.
The analogy of the Tralfamadorians going crazy to billy going to the bathroom compared to us going to the zoo and watching animal do there business is spot on. When we see other species preform tasks it is always interesting and amusing. The Tralfamadorians are probably using the same thought process. Seeing how humans excrete waste had to have been a little uncomfortable and funny for them
I wonder how the tralfamdorians knew about the future so well. They knew how the universe was going to end. My educated guess would be that the way they knew was similar to the way that they read books and how all the information is out at once with no story or build up and suspense
I think that Billy's story is still very plausible even though he was in a mental ward. I mean if I ever heard someone talking about time travel and being abductee by aliens I would probably think they were crazy. So Billy being in a mental ward seems like something that everyone around him thought to be what he needed. When would you ever believe someone just back from war saying they can time travel. I wouldn't and I would most likely tell them they need to go see someone about it.
Billy is being held like an animal by the Tralfamadorians in a zoo, that seems like a good reason to have sex with Montana. What if he didn't then the Tralfamadorians would just find a way to force him to do it. Montana was brought to be Billy's mate too so it was what he was supposed to do. So I don't think that I would consider him to have been cheating on Valencia.
As to what Hailey said about the Christianity thing in here I too wonder how people can be so judgmental in a faith where it tells people not to judge others. People lie, cheat, look down on others, and don't help each other out but yet still think they are good people because they belong to a certain faith. I feel that when people belong to religions it causes a rift for people and causes them to look down or think bad about others if they don't look at things the way they do.
I think its significant that Derby was reading The Red Badge of Courage because in The Red Badge of Courage, the main character runs away from his problems throughout the whole book. He had no courage. In Slaughterhouse-5, there are almost no characters because war strips them of their courage. So, relatively, The Red Badge of Courage and Slaughterhouse-5 have similar situations. Readers expect a perfect world with brave heroes that save the day. Real war is not like that.
Derby also wants to be looked up to and idolized among his fellow troops. He feels like its his responsibility to be a leader. The Red Badge of Courage's main character was the exact opposite. Maybe Derby was trying to learn from the book.
yessssssssir my g these some HEAT questions
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