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Our narrator places himself
back into the story again with an account of the deaths he has recently
encountered. What is significant about the wording?
Why would aliens be so interested in Darwin? Why would they be interested in golf?
How had O'Hare and the narrator become so "extremely well-to-do"? Why does the narrator repeat Billy's phrase about Wild Bob?
What do you make of the comments the narrator and O'Hare have after they read the population data?
Now we have the narrator, O'Hare, and Billy all together in Dresden...does this solidify Billy's story?
Why is Dresden described as being the moon? Do you suppose it's a fitting description?
If so, how?
What does the position and condition of the first set of bodies found in Dresden suggest?
I like this ending...but it might not strike you the same. Take a look at the last 3-4 paragraphs...do you think this was a good way for Vonnegut to end the novel? Did the narrator keep his promise to Mary O'Hare?
Why would aliens be so interested in Darwin? Why would they be interested in golf?
How had O'Hare and the narrator become so "extremely well-to-do"? Why does the narrator repeat Billy's phrase about Wild Bob?
What do you make of the comments the narrator and O'Hare have after they read the population data?
Now we have the narrator, O'Hare, and Billy all together in Dresden...does this solidify Billy's story?
Why is Dresden described as being the moon? Do you suppose it's a fitting description?
If so, how?
What does the position and condition of the first set of bodies found in Dresden suggest?
I like this ending...but it might not strike you the same. Take a look at the last 3-4 paragraphs...do you think this was a good way for Vonnegut to end the novel? Did the narrator keep his promise to Mary O'Hare?
41 comments:
Dresden is referred to several times as "the Moon" because of what it has/is to become. After the raids and the destruction of the city and many lives, Dresden had become a wasteland of random minerals. Just like the Moon which has craters and minerals that are useless to us, Dresden has become destroyed alongside the lives of many. The most significant comparison between the two is the "lifeless" aspect that has become of both. Caverns full of bodies are found and dug up and it becomes apparent that there is nothing left of Dresden, of the life of a prisoner that Billy was, and that it was horrific to see in the end.
By having the narrator, O'Hare, and Billy all in Dresden at once you have some sort of confirmation of Billy's story. It's no longer, "Billy Pilgrim said," then this or that. It is to be accepted that Billy Pilgrim was in Dresden. However, we still don't know about Billy's time jumping and alien experiences. Were those real or just Billy's way of dealing with everything he witnessed? I wish we could know for certain what was going on in Billy's mind. I want to know how much of what we learned about Billy's life was a reflection of what the war did to him and how much of it was truly Billy's backstory.
I think it is fitting that Dresden is described as the moon. The moon has two sides, one is smooth the other is full of craters. Dresden before the bombing is like the beauty of the smooth side of the moon. After the bombing Dresden is like the crater filled side. Also the moon has no life like Dresden after the bombing. It is as Billy and the others were astronauts making an expedition on the moon. The conditions on the first few bodies suggest that the actual bombs did not kill the people. People died of starvation or dehydration from being stuck in their bomb shelter.
I didn't really like the ending. I don't know what I imagined, but I thought it would have been a bit different. I think he did keep his promise to Mary O'Hare. Through his character of Billy Pilgrim, he was able to un-glamorize the aspects of war, which is what he promised to do. After the war, Billy became depressed and just went through life unknowingly, like he was lost. No one wants to end up like Billy, lost, crazy, and depressed, which he blames the war for. It turns people off of war and towards more Peaceful terms.
I found it interesting and suitable about Dresden being described as the moon. After the war and bombing, Dresden became barren and grey. The moon is thought of as empty and many craters and that's what Dresden became. The people were all gone, the place was filled with holes where the bombs were dropped. There's nothing on the moon, just like there was nothing left in Dresden. The people, houses, everything was gone. All that was left was ashes and craters just like on the moon. Also to add onto what Daniel said, I think the author added this description because Billy already believed he traveled in space and now it was as if Billy and the other soldiers became astronauts as they stepped out of the bomb shelter and explored what was left of Dresden.
I imagined the ending of the novel to be much different than it was. I imagined Billy living on a quiet beach with his kids and living out the rest of his life as a semi-happy old man, but instead it ended as most war veteran's stories end with depression, anxiety and terrible memories. If it had ended the way I had wanted it to the overall theme of suffering would be lost. Vonnegut carried the theme of suffering through characters like Rumfoord and Lazzaro, ones who think they are always right and are above all others. Their egos resembled World War II by showing how one person's problems and ideas can become the whole worlds problem in which lives were lost. Vonnegut kept his promise of not glamorizing war through characters such as Billy who had absolutely no luck throughout his life and endured unimaginable pain.
Dresden is described as being the surface of the moon because of how barren and lifeless it is. I think it is a fitting description. When Billy and the others emerge from the slaughterhouse to find Dresden in ruins, it looked like a different planet to them. Dresden looked like a lifeless hell. The moon has no life, plants, or atmosphere. Dresden was reduced to dust, just like the moon's surface.
Dresden being described as the moon has a lot to do with the atmosphere and look it must have had after being fire-bombed. The moon's surface is grey in color, dusty, and riddled with craters of varying sizes. Most of all it is quiet, barren, and lifeless. One could assume that after a large fire, a city would be covered in ash and dust, giving it a moon dust look. Bombs would have added craters to this as well. And just like the moon, Dresden was quiet and lifeless. All together i think it would be a fitting description of the city in the aftermath of the bombing.
I think Billy's description of Dresden as the moon fits perfectly. The moon is gray and barren, uninhabitable, could even look like disaster took place. Just like what happened in Dresden. After the destruction of Dresden it was nothing but ash gray remnants of what was, looking much like the moon. It's fitting for Billy to describe Dresden as something in outer space, since he does also believe he will go on to live on another planet. The moon may hold fascinating things, just like Dresden once did, but from the outside it looks like nothing is there, just like Dresden.
"Dresden was like the moon now, nothing but minerals. The stones were hot. Everybody else in the neighborhood was dead"(p178). I know that this quote is not from chapter 10, but it is when we first hear of Dresden as the moon. When Dresden is destroyed, all that is left is rubble. There is nothing left of the city that once stood. Now, other than the city looks like the moon in that there is nothing to look at, it also resembles the moon figuratively. Only a select few survived to see Dresden, and only a select few ever walked on the moon. Man was not supposed to inhabit the moon just as man was not supposed to survive the bombing. Both the moon and Dresden are void of life. So yes, I believe that the description of Dresden as the moon is fitting, but imagining it as what they saw is devastating.
Why I may have wanted a more dramatic and concluding ending for Slaughtehouse-Five as a reader, I was still satisfied with the ending. It was a rather abrupt change but then again the entire book jumped from place to place and time to time. I think Vonnegut needed to end the book as he did though so that he could show that all of the destruction did eventually end and the world moved on. He showed a new beginning while also showing the end. He also kept his promise to Mary O'Hare in that this is not a book destined for the big screen. There is nothing heroic or glamorous about this book, and we were shown what those children who went into war dealt with the rest of their lives. Overall, I'd give this book four stars out of five. It was confusing at times and even amusing at others, but I was left with a lasting impression of the faces of war.
I like how they described Dresden as "the moon" because that was really want it came to look like. It had holes and craters and bumps and hills. It was barren and torn down. There wasn't much to it anymore, like the moon.
When they were reading off the population estimates, I found it very interesting. I thought it was crazy how accurate their numbers were. In the early 2000s is when our population finally hit 7 billion which is just what the predicted.
Dresden is described as being the moon after it is bombed because of its physical and outward appearance. All of the structures have been destroyed and crumbled to the ground, creating piles of rubble and probably craters, just like the uneven and gray surface of the moon. It is probably a fitting description, I would suppose, because the moon is an empty and barren place, and the author makes it apparent that Dresden becomes an empty and barren city after the bombing. I also like the reference that the Americans "didn't mean to leave any moon men" because it also relates the survivors back to the moon. The whole idea of it interested me, and it gave me a much more vivid picture of the destruction and ruin after the bombing of Dresden. The position and condition of the first set of bodies found in Dresden shows that the attack was unexpected and the ones who could find shabby shelter were just crushed. Honestly, barely anyone in that city stood a chance.
The ending of the novel certainly fits the plot. It really was a great way for Vonnegut to end the novel. I especially love the way the narrator portrayed the passing of time in which the Americans were locked up, “And somewhere in there is springtime…And then, one morning, they got up to discover that the door was unlocked. World War Two in Europe was over” (Vonnegut 274). This passage is quite ironic, I would have thought that someone would have at least told them or woke them up during the night, but they were left to just discover it on their own. On the other hand, while this is certainly debatable, I do not feel as though the narrator kept his promise to Mary O’Hare because to her anguish, the narrator involved women in children on the front lines of the battles during World War Two. It was this exact involvement that Mary O’Hare contested to the narrator at the beginning of the novel, which leads one to believe that he broke his promise to her.
I think the aliens would be so interested in Darwin because he is a realist similar to the aliens and also similarity to the aliens is the survival of the fittest. As far as the whole golf thing well lets be honest who doesn't love golf? They describe Dresden as the moon because it is a dark, desolate, crater filled town. This is due to the fact because the equivalent of 20,000 tons of TNT were dropped on this town. I do believe that this is a fitting description. I believe that these first set of bodies were the other prisoners that were sitting on the bench during the explosion. I can honestly say that I have never enjoyed the endings of these kind of thought provoking books including this one. I loved this book but in my opinion there is always a better way to end great novels such as this was.
Dresden was now just a valley of dust, gray and deserted. The moon, full of craters, is represented by the soldiers digging holes in the ash and dirt. Everything would've seemed cold, dark, and barren. No life there anymore, save the soldiers digging for corpse mines. The city once called Dresden, is now just an isolated ash pit. Only certain people were allowed to go and explore the ruins, to help "clean up".
I was a bit surprised at the comments the narrator and O'Hare have after reading the population data. They seemed to be very disconnected when they said it. The narrator says "I suppose they will all want dignity" and this is probably true. All 7,000,000,000 people would want to be viewed as something great and considered a honorable person. This of course is improbable as there's always going to be those people viewed as higher up on the totem pole even though "all men are equal". Although I was caught off guard when I read their comments I do agree with them.
I agree a lot with what Allie Pete had to say- everyone does want dignity and honor. No one wakes up one day and says "Hey, my goal is to make people see me as the dirt worms crawl through!" No, that isn't even close to what people want.
Think of it this way- why do we go to school? To get an education, yes. But why have an education? For literacy, duh. But why be literate, if we don't want to be seen in a respectable light? Exactly. Because immediately, we judge those who do not know how to read or write because we automatically label them as stupid. Why do we pay ridiculous amount of money to go to school? To get a degree for a career we want to have. Why have a career? Because it's the society norm.
Everyone wants to be accepted and not looked down upon. And while I took Allie's comment and went off on a different tangent, it's just confirming that most of the people would want dignity, if not all of them.
They call Dresden "the moon" for a good reason. After the bombing, it literally looked like the moon. It was cold and lifeless. It was barren rubble. It had holes and craters everywhere the eye could see. It was just gone. Nothing important still stood there. Calling this now barren city, "the moon," is a very fitting description, mainly because of how the city looked. As I said before, it literally looked like the moon, dark and lifeless. There is not much to say about it really, just that the city was flattened, end of story.
Dresden is described as "the moon" many times in the novel after the severe bombing. This is because the bombs left ash and deep craters in the ground making it seem just like the surface of the moon. Both the moon and Dresden are nothing but useless waste. On the moon there is no life, and after the destruction of the city there is close to no life on Dresden either. Using the reference of the moon to describe Dresden probably makes the last soldiers feel even more abandoned than before. It puts the desolation into reality. The description of Dresden is fitting because just like the moon, Dresden is now barren. There are no buildings, no plant life, and no human beings.
Dresden is called the moon because while it has been inhabited, it's a wasteland, And only resides in dreams and images. Also the bombing and craters could have ties like Kyle Johnson said. it also could be because it gives the survivors a sense of isolation and no hope, like someone who would be trapped on the moon would say. Except these soldiers do actually have an escape, it just isn't easy.
In the final chapter of the novel, Vonnegut places himself back into the story once again. He explains all of the recent deaths, which all had something to do with guns. After his father’s death, he acquires his guns, and states that they rust in his possession. I think this is an allusion in that Vonnegut believes the use of weaponry such as guns is a terrible thing. Another thing to note in this part of the novel is the strong belief in Charles Darwin by the Tralfamadorians. Their whole perspective on self-improvement is death, in which they refer to corpses as trophies so to speak. The last reference in the novel that I thought was very interesting was the comparison of the moon to Dresden. The moon has large and round craters that would resemble the perfect shape of a blast zone from a bomb. The desolate landscape of Dresden sounds a lot like what you would find on the moon.
Dresden was described as being the moon because after the bombing there was nothing left. There was no form of life left in the city and there was only rubble and ash left. The moon sounds sort of like this as well. On the moon there is no life at all and there are huge craters, rubble, and ash from all the meteors striking it on impact. Reading the description of Dresden after the bombing it sounds exactly like this. The only life forms are the few German guards and the 100 Americans in the meat locker in Slaughterhouse Five. They have to walk many miles just to find a few people running a hotel, which is where they end up staying for a few days. But even from others reading about the bombing of Dresden they talk about how nothing should’ve been left except ash, rubble, craters, and rock which is just like the surface of the moon.
I love the aliens' fascination with Darwin. He was a champion of reason when science on that subject was left to a 1800-year-old book. I can also understand the aliens' interest in golf: "How can humans enjoy a sport so boring?" But for real, golf is a sport for rich people. Clubs cost at least one thousand dollars, and it requires vast amounts of well-kept space. It's amazing it got popular at all. Maybe that's what the aliens were interested in.
I also find the ending interesting. At the end of a war, you'd think there'd be a fanfare. But that's not what Billy experiences. It's just a quiet moment. That seems like Vonnegut kept his promise to Mary O'Hare. He didn't celebrate war. He described it in all its horror and beauty.
Dresden being described as the moon serves as great imagery for the reader. When I think of the moon I think of massive craters, moon rock and rubble, and lifelessness. This is exactly how Dresden is after the bombings. When bombs hit the ground, they completely displace the ground beneath them, causing craters which sizes depend on the power of the explosives. Also, just about everything was destroyed in Dresden, leaving random rocks and dust scattered about like a three- year-old’s play room. Finally, it is stated repeatedly in the novel that over 100,000 people died in Dresden. The attack on Dresden essentially eradicated all human existence, leaving the area practically dead and lifeless. I strongly approve of the author’s use of this image, and honestly could not come up with a better comparison myself.
I think that Dresden being described as the moon fit perfectly. It gave me a really good, imaginative picture of what it looked like. The moon is completely barren, with huge craters. There is no sign of human life or plant life. So after Dresden was bombed I can imagine all that was left was smoldering ruins and dirt, with large craters where the bombs were dropped. The moon is very big so I can picture the nothingness going on forever, as far as the eye could see.
Dresden is compared to the moon because of its lifelessness. Just like Dresden before the bombing, the moon held a lot of life and excitement for those who wondered what exactly was up there. Upon discovery, the moon was just a barren wasteland. Dresden was considered a very beautiful city. Even so, it was easily turned into a desert of craters and cracked rocks: like the surface of the moon.
The position and condition of the first set of bodies suggests that they died recently. They were merely wax museum figures meant to be moved. The bodies were positioned sitting on benches, which could also mean that they were merely going throughout their daily lives when the siren sounded. They probably expected to be going about business as usual within a few minutes, the sirens being just a minor hiccup in their otherwise normal day.
O'Hare, the narrator, and Billy being together doesn't solidify Billy's story. It only means that he was in Dresden,and he was in the war. With this information you can assume the rest of his normal life is true, like getting married, having kids, being an optometrist. Vonnegut only proves one part of Billy's story is true. No one can say whether or not Billy is actually unstuck in time, but Vonnegut using the phrase "Billy says" makes it seem less plausible.
After I read The Population Reference Bureau's prediction for the world population in 2000, I looked it up. The the total population was about 6 billion, so they were a billion off. Just thought that was cool how accurate it was. Dresden is being described as the moon because all it is now is rubble. It's probably covere in ashes which would give it a greyish appearance, like the moon has. I think the moon is a pretty fitting description of Dresden.
I think the aliens were so interested in Darwin because his beliefs are so far off from theirs. Darwin believed in improvement, that when a plant or animal dies, it's because it didn't evolve like the rest did to survive. The "T's" (I got annoyed with pronouncing and typing the full word) didn't really believe in death at all. Everything happened at once. There was no cause and effect, just events that take place, therefore Darwin's theory that over time things change and grow off one another seems odd. Although when compared, I think both philosophies are sort of odd.
The description of Dresden being like the moon is wonderfully fitting. After being bombed, what else would a city look like that we know of? I imagine craters where remnants of buildings flew around and crashed into the ground. Dirt and other minerals that were buried getting uprooted to create a new covering on the ground. The population prediction was also mysteriously accurate... Although the population didn't actually hit 7 billion until March of 2012, it was only 12 years off. I like the ending of the book because it fit how random the storyline was. If the book would have had an ending where Billy was living happily ever after, I don't believe the story overall would have as much meaning to it.
I found it interesting that the narrator uses the phrase “so it goes” for his interjection into the story in the last chapter. Is the narrator relating himself more to Billy than any other character in the novel? Vonnegut talks about O’Hare in the beginning of the novel as someone he was with in Dresden and he talks about Edgar Derby, and mentions a character like Lazzaro. If Vonnegut is relating himself to the character of Billy then it makes more sense that “so it goes” is the standing phrase, it would be his memories of the war and since he has no other confirmation from anyone that makes him feel reassured that he is portraying the correct story. I am still not sure about the time travel and the alien abductions. However, the time travel could just be memories that keep recurring in his head time after time, and the alien abductions would be like the dreams he is having while being in the hospital many times after weird circumstances occurred.
"I suppose they all want dignity." After reading the population data, the narrator and O'Hare gave this insightful thought. I absolutely love how much that small assumption can signify. With 7 billion plus people inhabiting this planet, there has to be something motivating our race to grow and expand. Everyone wants a purpose. Everyone wants a unique epitaph for their permanent headstone. I agree with Allie and Emmalee: people strive for acceptance and honor. As for the comments, I feel that their purpose in Vonnegut's concluding chapter was to pile on a bit more perspective to the novel. There is so much competition in our world, and with a net gain of 191,00 people, each day, you can't blame us! Overall, I find Vonnegut's way of laying out this novel intriguing and well done. These little snip-bits of themes and life generalizations are great. I may not completely like how the book ended, but I can respect this novel.
Due to the fact that the narrator, O'Hare, and Billy were all together in Dresden at the novel's end, it does confirm that Billy's stories of Dresden did indeed happen. While this may be true, it does not explain the Tralfamadorians or the time skips that occur in the novel. The time skips and abductions could have happened; however, it could also be assumed that the events were made up by Billy to protect his own sanity. Despite this fact, I still believe that the end of the novel was acceptable. The novel ends with Billy and the prisoners finally waking to the end of World War II. I believe this was the perfect place to end the novel because, at this point, every point in Billy's "timeline" have linked together. If the story continued passed this point, it would simply be retelling events that the reader has already read. While some may find the ending annoying, due to never 100% confirming the Tralfamadorians or time skips existences, I found it to be a good example of "leave it up to the reader's imagination.
Unmarked bodies sitting on benches makes me think of two options: church or a bomb shelter. Considering that February 13, 1945 was a Tuesday, I think church can be ruled out. Yet, a bomb shelter doesn't seem correct by the description of the shelter that they were under, an accidental dome created by timbers and rocks. what I think of next is the fact that they were not preparing for anything, merely living. I do believe that the narrator kept his promise to Mary. in the second to last paragraph, he mentions how women and children dug trenches and played their part in the war. Most importantly though, he kept his promise through his childish portrayal of Billy. We are often reminded of his age and of his naive behaviors. How can one take a character seriously who wears silver combat boots and a blue toga? Vonnegut never tried to make us believe that Billy was this extraordinary hero who was stolid in the face of death or a gun-slinging mercenary bringing justice to the world; he told us the story the way Mary would've wanted: with a child protagonist.
I like the way that Vonnegut ends the novel. Earlier in the novel he mentioned ending the novel with the words "Poo-tee-weet", which he did. It kind of pulls together the war in the last few paragraphs because it jumps through the last few seasons of the war. Billy and the others dig up the corpses buried underground in Dresden, which start off as fresh flesh and soon become decayed and rotted. This also proves that he kept his promise to Mary O'Hare. He promised he would not try to create a war hero and he would show how men were turned to babies during the war. In fact, Billy Pilgrim did a fantastic job playing a baby during the war. All in all, I found this novel very interesting and I really enjoyed it.
“Poo-tee-weet”
I feel as if there is a certain symbolism or meaning behind why the bird sings that way. I know that it is recurring in the novel and that is about all I could figure out. After some serious googling and trying to figure out if it was a code, I came to the conclusion that it probably is just a filler. Birds don’t really have anything important to say to the universe, they are simply just there flapping their wings and going about their business. Maybe Vonnegut does this to bring us back to reality, or maybe just to say hi to Billy since he knows all about the universe. Whatever the reason, it took me the whole book to realize what it meant.
Hearing about why the Tralfamadorians are more interested in Jesus Christ was one of the most interesting parts of the novel for me. Hearing about the view on death and how it serves as a function was so strange, yet very agreeable. Again with the Kilgore Trout science-fictions references, Billy is obviously remembering one of his novels and linking the connection with the aliens. I was happy to hear that Billy was remembering the good memories throughout his life, that always makes me happy while reading. This book amazes me with how quick it can jump back and forth from feelings of sadness/depressing to feelings of happiness and joy. Once second Billy could be having a chat with his old friend O'Hare or even remembering feasting on the way to Dresden in the plane ride, to digging up bodies or seeing someone being killed. Billy is always reminding us how thankful he is for every experience he has overcome and every opportunity he was offered, which is a lesson that we need to be reminded of on occasion. Reading about the prisoners cremating the bodies was so sad but realistic to me. Nobody understands how much emotional pain/suffering is linked to events relating to war and killing in general. It's sad to hear about some of Billy's bad experiences. Edgar Derbys's killing seemed to hit home with me the hardest because of how absolutely one hundred percent wrong it was. Derby was one of my favorite characters throughout the novel, and seemed to have a good soul, making his death one of the worst.
Even though the whole book is somewhat clinical and coldhearted about death, the beginning of chapter ten is even more coldhearted than the rest of the book. The aliens liked Darwin because he believed that through death, life evolves and gets better. The information about the population is pretty accurate about what the population would be in 2000, and the fact that he separates the people that die from starvation/malnutrition is interesting. Returning to Dresden must have been odd for both O’Hare and Billy because of the memories from the war and remembering all of the bodies hidden underground. The first bodies being described gave me shivers reading it, because it was the same way Billy was hiding underground. The other bodies being described was just disgusting because although the people may have been enemies, they’re still people with families and friends, and they’re going to be blowtorched and left underground. He refers to Dresden as the moon because both are lifeless and bare. I hate how it ends on such a gross place, it could’ve ended while Billy was on Tralfamador or back home. Vonnegut did keep his promise to Mary O’Hare and it did portray all of the young lives that were taken away and the bodies are never to be seen again.
“Poo-tee-weet”
HE finished the book like he said he would. This book is crazy, coldhearted and real about death. It threw me off a ton of times with the time hops and all this other stuff but I have to say it was a good book. If I would of just picked this up and started reading it I probably would have stopped but due to this class I finished it and read a good book.
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