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How can you know the plane
is going to crash and not say something -- allow people the opportunity to make
their peace with God, for instance?
How does the nature of the Polish songs characterize Lionel Merble?
Billy was in a mental institution, and now we find out he had a massive head injury in the plane crash...could this explain the fact that his narration is questionable at best? Later it states that -- while unconcious from surgery -- billy "dreamed millions of things, some of them true. The true things were time travel." True according to whom?
Why do you think Vonnegut includes the scene with the women showering?
Interesting to see how Vonnegut described the spooning of vitamins. It was as if his body was thanking him...Have you ever craved some type of nourishment and had your body thank you?
How does the nature of the Polish songs characterize Lionel Merble?
Billy was in a mental institution, and now we find out he had a massive head injury in the plane crash...could this explain the fact that his narration is questionable at best? Later it states that -- while unconcious from surgery -- billy "dreamed millions of things, some of them true. The true things were time travel." True according to whom?
Why do you think Vonnegut includes the scene with the women showering?
Interesting to see how Vonnegut described the spooning of vitamins. It was as if his body was thanking him...Have you ever craved some type of nourishment and had your body thank you?
77 comments:
Billy supposedly does know and prepares himself mentally for the oncoming crash. I too question why Billy does not warn the other passengers, but it also makes me curious why not change something that does happen in your life if you know what happens when. As it runs through my mind it just seems to me like this is an instance where you can think about know everything that will happen in your life, but your future is set and fate is written down in a set-and-stone manner of which you cannot change. This explanation opens up many more questions though on how could you think about your entire life for so long and to never even be able to change it. Every time you feel pain or love or a surprise you know it's going to be there and all you can do is let your body go on feeling whatever it is you are about to feel.
Referring to Tyler’s post, I think this is why we see Billy as such an unresponsive person. He has seen his life over and over again and now it’s almost like a play; he does the exact same motions every time because it is in the script. While reading the book I put together an idea of how Billy’s time travel works. Billy is walking on a straight line in the ground and looking through a telescope at the mountain landscape the Tralfamadorians descried time as. Billy has no control over the telescope as it randomly focuses on certain objects. While Billy has the power to focus the telescope and to walk a different path, he doesn’t because Tralfamadorians say that this is how he is supposed to view his time. I think that this is why Billy doesn’t warn the people on the plane. He is complacent with his view of time and complacent with his ‘path’.
If Billy changes the course of his future, what will happen? I honestly have no idea. If Billy had said something about the plane crashing, they possibly would not have taken (considering airport security would still be satisfactory pre 9/11). Would Billy's visions suddenly take a different course? Would he finally realize the power of free will? As a person who has no religious affiliations, the thought of allowing people the opportunity to make peace with God did not occur to me as I read this section, and I can't believe that the thought would occur to Billy either. He has met time traveling aliens who have the ability to view all of time, after that, would it be reasonable or possible even to believe in an omnipotent creator whose purpose is to decide whether or not humans' actions please him.
I am curious as to what would happen if Billy attempted to change his future. I realize that he was told to simply accept what happens because fate cannot be changed, but why doesn't he object to not being able to control his own fate? I believe he is simply content with his life and the way it plays out due to the time travel he does. If he knows what will happen and is able to warn others of what is to come, shouldn't he at least try?
I believe Billy didn't warn the other passengers about the crash because of the old saying "ignorance is bliss." Sure, if he had warned them (and assuming that what Billy says about time is true, that nothing can be changed) they could have said goodbye to their families. But you know what the worst part of a roller coaster is? It's that moment right before you drop when you are at the highest peak and you know what's right in front of you, but it is too late to change your mind. That would have been exactly how the rest of the passengers felt from the moment Billy told them about the crash until the moment they died. And I sure wouldn't want to spend my last few hours in fear. So when you did deep into the moral question at hand, I believe Billy made the right call by not telling anyone as long as we assume that what Billy says about time is true.
I think the fact that Billy received a head injury in the plane crash does strengthen the idea that Billy is making all this alien stuff up. He could have changed as a person after this incident ( like war does to some). This also Made me question whether any other events occurred in his telling of his life. Then Billy says he dreamed the whole period of his comma, this could be where he thought of the aliens too. The true stuff that Billy speaks of is true according to himself and probably for the most part only himself. It kind of seems like Billy already had a head injury before the crash considering he didn’t warn anyone that it was going happen. That seems awful that he would do that, but I believe he justifies it with the aliens. He thinks that its going to happen no matter what and they can’t do anything so it does not matter.
I like the way that Sam explained why Billy was such an unresponsive person. He is simply telling a story that he knows he can’t change and he has seen over and over again. Why get emotionally invested? I believe that if Billy tried to change his life he could, but since the Tralfamadorians said that it can’t be done then he is just following what they say. That’s what we do sometimes too. People said walking on the moon was impossible, so a lot of people just accepted that. Then other people started testing the limits. Maybe that’s what Billy needs to do. Think outside of the box instead of sitting in the middle of it.
Billy has had major damage to his brain, causing many readers to feel that he may be untrustworthy. I personally believe that his tales have been just downright unbelievably silly from the beginning. His stories are becoming much harder to believe and understand in general, especially now that we know how much physical and mental trauma he has been through. The fact that he has been hospitalized gives me a wary feeling. I think the "true things" he was dreaming were the fantasies that he wants to believe were real. Billy either has a strong imagination or a messed up noggin. I'm having a time deciding which one.
Knowing that Billy has major brain damage explains the irrational stories about aliens and going back in time. In the post that I had written about Billy’s out of this world experiences prior, I had stated that I thought it Billy was telling these stories over the radio not because he was seeking attention and looking for the front page article. Some symptoms of brain damage are having problems remembering things to their full extent, having askewed dreams, and an overwhelming amount of anxiety. These side effects help explain his irrational stories of aliens, being abducted and being sent back in time to times of great trauma.
I feel that if Billy did warn the people on the plane they would think he was crazy. The people on the plane would ignore him if he claimed to be a time traveller. Also I feel he is unable to tell them. He is able to time travel, but he is unable to alter what happens. It is as he is reliving an event but he must do the same actions every time. Maybe Billy has relived this scene so many times that he no longer fights with his conscious of everyone but him dying. Also with Billy in the mental institution and has a head injury, it does makes me question if Billy is sane.
Billy couldn't tell anyone that he knew the plane would crash because he knew that no one would believe him. Some might question and exit the plane but most would disregard whatever he said and call him crazy. As Vonnegut said in the novel about Billy, "he didn't want to make a fool of himself". My immediate thought? Billy's stories in his head could become worse now that he has a fractured skull. I couldn't imagine it would help anything so that leads me to believe that it is only going to get worse.
Billy claims that his dreams that really happened were time travel, and the dreams that were made up were just dreams. Throughout this whole chapter Billy just bounces back between different dreams, which he claims are "time travel." I think that Vonnegut includes the girls in the shower, and the spooning of the vitamins, and the tralfamadorians in past chapters, just to show how off topic Billy's mind gets. It shows us that Billy isn't exactly a reliable source and almost makes us feel like his whole story could just be a big dream. How does he know the difference between what dreams happened and what didn't? After being knocked unconscious, who knows what is really true and what isn't?
I think that if Billy told everyone about the plane crash they might think that he had something to do with it or that he was a nut case. That also goes along with the fact that he was in a mental institution and suffered many head injuries so we don't know if what he is telling us is true. With those injuries, he could easily perceive anything he had dreamed or thought as true. There is a saying that if you tell yourself something long enough, you'll believe it. I think that is what Billy is doing. He has fantasies of the aliens and time traveling but it is really all in his head.
Knowing now that Billy had a head injury in the plane crash makes everything seem to make a little bit more sense. I now understand why he was in the mental institute. If he was having "dreams" of all of the stories he has been telling us about while he was unconscious, it makes it seem like these stories were only dreams and nothing more. If he was unconscious, these dreams could have been very realistic and when he woke up, he actually thought these things happened to him. Listening to a lot of his stories, I couldn't get myself to believe a majority of them. This is why most people think he is crazy and this is why he ended up in a mental institute. Maybe he really is crazy, he just thinks it was all so real and he truly believes it.
Bill knowing about the plane crashing sounds a lot like the final destination movies, accept for the fact that the main character always told people what was going to happen. All the people who followed the main characters advice saved themselves temporarily but died in freak accidents later on. When I read the polish songs I couldn’t help but laughing because I’m polish, I thought they were quite comical. Whenever I did something silly or weird when I was younger my grandma always blamed it on me being a Polock! The fact that Billy was in a mental institution AND had a massive head injury makes his narration completely unbelievable. Billy probably dreamed of all the time travel and of Tralfamadore while he was unconscious from surgery.
I think that if Billy would have tried warning people about the plane crash, the other passengers would not believe him. This is especially true with his history of being in a mental institution. Not only this, but he also seemed to be preparing himself for the injuries he knew were about to occur as he closed his eyes. This head injury helps to confirm that Billy could be a questionable narrator. No one really knows what is true or untrue about Billy's life because they weren't always with him. When I am sick my body does not crave anything except chicken noodle soup, and I will go days without eating because nothing sounds good. But once I have a bowl of this soup I start feeling better because it helps my stomach to stop hurting, and fills me up so I am no longer hungry.
If Billy were to warn the other passengers of the plane crash, nothing would change. People would think of him as crazy or irrational because they lack his ability to foretell time and know the fate of themselves and those around them. He has already adopted the idea that fate cannot be altered no matter how hard you try. He doesn't try to offer them the opportunity to make their peace with God because he views the crash and their deaths as God's plan. There is no need to make peace because this doesn't necessarily mean the end for them.
I believe if Billy had tried to alert people about the plane things could have gone two ways. They either would have gone into mass chaos or they wouldn't have believed him. Knowing about the plane crash helps the reader to understand why Billy is the way he is or maybe what contributes to why he is the way he is. After finding out that Billy received the head injury it confirms that he is an unreliable source. It's hard to decider the fact from fiction in his life, he goes around and around and it's difficult to keep up sometimes.
I think Billy just tells himself that he already knows the plane is going to crash. Fate cannot be changed and no matter how many times he relives that moment, the plane still will and always crash. But that's through time travel, right?
Of course as he is telling the story, he knows the plane crashes because he has lived through it. There's no other way to pretend because all of those people are dead. I guess I don't get it. If all of this "time travel" is just his madness, how would he really know the plane was going to crash? How would he warn the passengers if he hadn't have literally time traveled?
I think I just confused myself.
I think that Billy does not tell the other passengers about the upcoming plane crash because telling the passengers could have led to a change in events. Those change in events could ultimately lead to a change in his future, or even an end to his future. It is more comforting to Billy knowing what to expect such as the time when he didn't do anything to stop himself from being abducted by the aliens in the earlier chapters. Either it is comforting to know what's about to happen or he just doesn't really care. I could believe either. It's ironic that the blog post asks "to make their peace with God, for instance?" because Billy, being an avid believer in time travel and Tralfamadore, believes in an afterlife that the aliens had promised him and not God. Just an observation.
I find it very weird that Billy knew that the plane was going to crash and didn’t say a word. That was rude to those people that were going to lose their lives. They could have been warned, and said their last goodbyes to everyone they loved, but instead they just died without any warning. I was very disappointed in Billy’s decision to not say anything about the upcoming plane crash. The mental institution as well as the head injury from the plane crash gives me no doubt in my mind that Billy’s narration is very questionable. What else would you expect from a mental patient with a head injury? He is obviously not in his right state of mind. That is why all these absurd time travelling stories come out of his mouth. Whenever I’m hungry I feel like I’m craving food so I get a really bad stomachache. But then when I actually eat food, I do feel like my body thanks me and releases me of my stomach pains.
I personally believe that it is not that Billy does not care about the people aboard the plane with him it is just that all the time travel and the realization with death has made him intolerant to the idea of death. In other words Billy is not afraid of dying and he does not realize that others are not time travelers like himself and others still are terrified of death. Lionel is hard working man who is sad or something is bothering him. Lionel almost comes off as a creepy old man. It is very possible that the plain crash and his head injury is the reason for his insanity and his crazy story's. Although it is hard to say the cause for everything Billy speaks of. I believe the war, traumatic childhood, and yes this plane crash are all contributing factors to his insanity. True according to Billy. Can anybody really be sure why Vonnegut writes any of the strange peculiar things? My thought to why Vonnegut included this scene in the novel is to just reemphasize that seeing a women naked or the first time just shows how young these soldiers were. "Children's Crusade"
I think Billy didn't warn his fellow passengers about the plane crashing because A) They would suspect Billy had plotted it, B) They'd think he was insane and no one would believe him, or C) Cause a massive panic. In my opinion it'd be better to worry for a less amount of time than for the entire duration of the flight until the crash. Also, Billy is totally desensitized to death and doesn't view it as a bad thing. Therefore to him, there is no point in warning the other people about it. Billy's head injury definitely makes his narrative more questionable, but it makes the story more interesting. We are experiencing trauma, illness, war, and insanity through Billy. Everything he writes is true to him. Even though a lot of it is hard for us to believe, it's sad yet kind of entertaining to see him talk about time travel and the Tralfamadorians like they're just every day people and experiences.
I believe Billy does not tell the others about the plane crash because no matter what, death is inevitable. Perhaps, in some separate timeline during his travels he actually did warn them about the crash and saw that it made no difference. They could have called him crazy; or perhaps they did listen, but died in a car crash the next day. Whether a person dies from an accident or old age; it doesn't really matter because in Billy's perspective of death, they're still alive at some point in time.
The fact that the plane crash caused head trauma does make Billy's narration questionable, but only to the readers who want to know the true facts of the story. We're meant to share in Billy's fevered insanity, therefore we need to understand Billy's perception instead of mistrusting it. Billy's world is true according to Billy, and I think that's enough.
Billy's experience in the war messed him up enough. Enough that he was in a mental hospital. Then the plane crash. Billy, I think mentally, is pretty much gone. Which does in fact make his narration questionable. He seems to know that the plane he was on was going to crash, he knew everything that was going to happen? I came to think that all of Billy's talk of time travel and knowing the future came to be after the plane crash, and that whenever he thought back he tells himself he 'knew it was going to happen', or 'was abducted by aliens that night', he put those events in after the fact.
I feel that Vonnegut included the scene with the women showering to show Billy Pilgrim’s true character. He wasn’t the one who shut the door. Nor did he apologize. He stood there. He stood there, feet planted firmly on the ground, mesmerized. Billy’s actions in this scene could be applied to his behavior in other areas of his life. For example, Could this lead one to believe that Billy Pilgrim would be willing to sacrifice others for his own self-pleasure and achievement? Possibly. I also think that in this scene, Billy Pilgrim proved to his comrades that he is not fit to lead others, as he would be willing to forgo others and invade their privacy, even if unintentional, without reparations, for his own self-benefit.
Knowing that the plane was going to crash would be hard to keep in. Telling everyone on board that the plane is destined to crash would only create panic and destruction on its own. However, one may argue that you should at least let the people make peace with their god. That is a wrong statement all around. Your god will always love you for who you are and knows what will happen to you in your lifetime. Make peace to your god on your own time, if you never got the chance to that's your own problem.
Not sure if this has been said yet, but early this morning that Malaysian plane was shot down in Ukraine (supposedly shot down I haven't followed it recently). A very heartfelt subject to think about since 295 people died aboard that plane. And then reading about another theoretical plane going down and that you knew about it. Can't argue with Riley saying it will cause its own panic and destruction of its own. Why cause people to live their last moments in the inevitable fear that death is approaching rapidly. Best case scenario is that the death is swift. But only Billy really knew, his ability of time travel let him possibly re-live this trying to find a way to fix it. But why would he care, in his beliefs everyone is alive at some point in time. The only way to really, truly judge is if you were in that same situation, looking at each and every face. What would you do?
Up until this chapter, I was back and forth on whether or not I should believe Billy's stories. Once I found out he was in a mental institution, I started having my doubts. Then when he was reading all of the Kligore Trout books, I was pretty sure he was just making these things up. Maybe he was trying to forget some of the things he saw in the war and make a new life for himself. This does make his narration questionable. When Billy doesnt say anything about the plane going down, at first I thought he should have. Then I think of how the Tralfamadorians know when the world is going to end but don't try to stop it because that is just the way it is and it always has been. That is how Billy thinks, he can't change it because it is destined to happen.
If Billy had told the others about the plane crash, I have little faith that they would even believe him. Also, would it have changed anything? Like Kayla said with the roller coaster analogy, if there was no way for them to be saved the only thing that would've changed is they would've spent their last moments in fear. From the beginning I have been questioning whether Billy's stories were the result of PTSD, head injuries, some other disorder, or just making them up in general and knowing the mental trauma he has been through explains this. I don't know if I believe anything Billy has said. The "some true things" are just what I believe Billy feels happened. I also believe saying "Billy says" shows that the narrator doesn't quite believe what they are telling us either. It is showing that Billy is unreliable.
Time-travel could include just memories, or memories of dreams. I'm sure Billy believed everything was true, so technically they were true. Just to only one person, and anyone else who actually believed him. Which also leads to the narration flaw, that may be completely unreliable, or believable only because Billy himself believed it. I guess the real question is, from who's perspective do you wish to follow? To any sane person, Billy is crazy and belongs in a mental hospital. Billy, who may be sane or not, is basically a time traveler and who has been chosen to see things no one else can see. Or dream.
Lionel Merbel is an ignorant, prejudiced man who knows nothing about real Polish people or their culture. During WW2 Polish people suffered along with jewish people and were faced with many of the same racist laws and suffered through mass killings and genocide during WW2 by German Nazis, Ukrainian Nationalists, and Soviet forces. Many Polish immigrants i’ve personally spoken to have described their struggles as equal to those of the Jews during the time. Even now some people show hostility to Poles in ways of hate crimes, stereotypes, and anti-polonism, which is similar to xenophobia. Russian politicians even now show hatred towards the Polish people, and Polish diplomats in Russia have even been beaten. My Grandfather fought very hard to escape communism after WW2, and his father before him fought to keep his family safe during WW2. Knowing that Lionel Merbel can make subhuman jokes about Poles when my family, along with many others, have fought long and hard to live freely and safely in America, is honestly disgusting and shows him to be close minded and simply stupid.
My thoughts on why Billy didn't say anything about the plane crash may be a bit repetitive but I'm going to say them anyhow. Billy believes his fate is set in stone and so if he did say something about the crash it wouldn't change the fact that it's going to crash and all the people are going to die. He knew the outcome and if he would have said something people probably wouldn't have believed him or it would have caused panic and hysteria. So it was probably for the better that he didn't mention anything. You are never guaranteed tomorrow and you don't typically know when you're going to die so you shouldn't need to be warned about it to make peace with God. You should already be on good terms with God. For instance I hold a strong faith in God and such and I believe if I were to die right now I would go to Heaven. So I personally wouldn't want someone to tell me the plane I was on was going to crash and I was going to die. Billy is perfectly fine knowing all he knows and keeps some things like this to himself. Another thing is the idea Billy has that people never truly die. So why would he feel the need to tell everyone on the plane?
I believe that Billy wanted to prevent panic from ensuing on the plane when he decided not to tell people of the inevitable crash. If I were on the plane, and I was told that I was going to die in an hour or so, I would be horrified and probably do something idiotic in attempt to get off the plane. Billy keeping this detail to himself prevent mass hysteria. Although this may have seemed like the best option for Billy at the time, it is quite selfish in reality. Many of these passengers were probably religious and would like the chance to right any wrongs and seek forgiveness in their final moments. I’m sure some would like to call their loved ones as well. Billy’s decision may have saved the plane from dissolving into chaos, but it also prevented peace from being made.
Now knowing that Billy had a head injury in the plane crash makes everything come full circle to me. He had brain damage that was pretty severe. He has suffered so many head injuries, nobody knows if he was telling the truth. But I believe he has been witnessing these things, but it has all been going on within his mind. I now understand why he was in a mental institution. It is a very plausible reason to be in one after all. Although Billy is in a mental ward I find it very weird and disheartening that Billy knew about the plane crash but did not tell the people aboard the plane. Billy knows that death is inevitable and cannot be avoided, but I just find it very strange. It is almost like he wants to die and wants the others to die with him.
Billy's stories are crazy, but I think they may root from some truth. Maybe not his truth, but still A truth. And I know this is a weird way of thinking, but what if the plane crash knocked something back into place? I know it didn't, I know he's still a loon, but it's possible! I think Billy gave up. He's tired of billy and so he just gave up at some point and goes through the motions, just like many of us do. With life, relationships, or even school. Everything is done in motions. Do this, then this, then this day in, day out.
I had a few thoughts about Billy telling the other people the plane was about to crash, if he told the pilot or someone that controlled the plane and they were able to make sure the plane did not crash Billy would have changed each person’s fate on board. My next thought was if he told anyone they might not believe him because I sure wouldn’t believe someone if they told me the plane was about to crash for no apparent reason. My last thought on this part of the chapter is that maybe Billy thought that no one would believe him since he had been in a mental hospital and they still might think that he is crazy. I think the showering scene was to show just how young and basically innocent these boys were when they went to war. They were forced to grow up right in that point in time because of what they saw and I think it was to show that each of those guys were at different stages in life. I thought that when Gluck shut the door that was a nice gesture to show that he had respect for those girls and that even though that situation could have gone either way it showed just how mature he was as a young man. The syrup reminded me of having a nice cold Gatorade after a hard set in swimming when my muscles are so sore and my body temperature is raised and the relief I get from the cold and the flavor gives me the kick I need to keep going.
At first, I thought that Billy might not be able to change the time that he had traveled back to. I thought maybe it was like a memory, and he was just reliving the moments of his life just as they had happened. At least I did until the anniversary party that he had and changed when he had deja vu.
I think Billy may have been afraid to mention what he knew would happen to the plane. Someone could have either accused him of doing something to the aircraft so that what he claimed was going to happen did happen or they would all just thing he was crazy for claiming this would happen. So, instead of drawing attention to himself, he just relived every moment as it originally happened. He knew that he would see his father in law again and his wife, so why worry about something then?
With that being said, who's to say he wasn't imagining that other people someday would soon be like him as well. That they would get unstuck in time and travel to different periods of their life. They would know about the crash as well and if they wanted to change it, they could do it themselves.
I don’t know how people could go on with life knowing that their demise is near such as the plane going down. I wouldn’t be able to deal with the pressure of knowing that everyone in that plane including yourself would probably die a rather awful if they weren’t killed upon impact when the plane finally hit the ground. Billy was lucky to have survived because being a lone survivor and being left to die would almost be worse that an instant merciful death.
I can’t even imagine what people who lose loved ones on because of plane crashes must feel. The most recent one where the plane was shot down in Ukraine near the Russian border comes to mind. All those people lost and it was ironically another Malaysian plane too (note to self don’t fly on the Malaysian airlines anytime in the future), after the one Malaysian flight went missing. What if someone on that flight knew what was going to happen but chose to say nothing before it went down, was it hijacked before being shot down by the pro-Russian rebels? So many questions are still left unanswered.
I too, questioned why Billy didn’t warn anyone in the plane. I assume it’s because he has experienced life over and over and over again, thus knowing exactly how he will act or react and what will happen. He is not going to deviate from what the universe has shown him and maybe that’s because he has time travelled or maybe it’s because he’s not one to speak up. Besides, if you think about it, do you think Billy announcing that the plane will crash would go over well? People wouldn’t make peace with their God. They would be too busy telling Billy he’s full of it and would more than likely take jabs at him being in a mental hospital, therefore unstable. He is simply sticking to the script because he knows, as previously stated, the outcome will not change.
the thing that really messed me up about this chapter was that he didn't tell the people that the plane was going to crash. i understand that he knows its going to happen no matter what, but what if the aliens are wrong? what if we can stop things from happening. its as tho his whole life hes being carried by a wave and he just doesn't care. he could have saved all of those people, and his wife. but instead he just lets it happen or he could have done the peace with god thing like you said, you know read the bible aloud lord is my Shepard valley of death stuff. but it just confuses me that he so thoroughly believes the aliens, about how you cant change anything. why doesn't he at least try? it makes him lose that sense of humanity that we want from him. the whole book hes this empty shell of a man.
I believe that a big reason why Billy didn't say anything about the impending plane crash is that he does not feel the same way about death as most people do. Most people believe one of two things. That they are either going to heaven or hell, and thats it, or that they are just done living and gone forever. Billy however, believes that when people die, they continue to live their lives over through certain events and memories that have happened to them throughout their lives. I believe that if Billy had never encountered the Tralfamadorians and their views, he could have even stopped everybody from getting on the plane, or he could have at least tried. Nobody in their right mind, including Billy, would have allowed those people to get on that plane, without saying something. The only person that could have saves all the passengers was Billy, but his views got in the way of his heroism.
I think that Billy did not want to say anything about the plane’s impending doom because he has the Tralfamadorian state of mind. It’s just like when they tell Billy they refuse to stop the universe from ending even though they could because the moment is structures that way. To them the alien pilot has always and will always press the button. He probably thinks that there is no way to change the event because of that. He also supposedly knows what death is like and he didn’t mention anything like God so that could be another reason. In fact the way he described death makes it seem like you can relive your life over and over so maybe he doesn’t think dying is a big deal. I also think it could be a little bit because Billy didn’t feel like making a fool of himself for once. He mentioned something about how people wouldn’t believe him even if said something. Also his head injury and the way that many things connect at the end of the book make me think Billy has made up a great deal of his story.
It did not surprise me when Billy did not tell anyone else that the plane was going to crash. He knew that the future couldn’t be changed so why put people in a panic? Humans don’t react well to change. Most people can’t easily accept the fact that they are about to die. Most of the other passengers would either not believe Billy, or would run around trying to fix what cannot be fixed. It's like the Trafalmadorians and the end of the universe. They know how it will happen, when it will happen, and who will cause it to happen, but no matter what they do it will always happen.
Why would someone want to induce panic in peoples last minutes of life knowing that it is unstoppable? Yes, some would've made peace with god and done other things to "Prepare" themselves for death. But for all of the others who don't know how to cope with impending doom, why cause them to worry? I don't know about you guys, but a peaceful death is the way I would want to go out. On the topic of the crash and questionable story telling, yes that is completely plausible. If I were to hear someone tell stories about the future followed by hearing about a plane crash... I would be a bit skeptical.
“Lionel Merble was a machine. Tralfamadorians, of course, say that every creature and plant in the Universe is a machine. It amuses them that so many Earthlings are offended by the idea of being machines.” (Vonnegut 154). This quote from the novel speaks for itself, saying how being called a machine is quite offensive to the human race. In this book I think that being a “machine” is something that everybody is and can’t control. Being a machine simply means that you’re controlled by fate and there is nothing a person can do about it. The things that are destined to happen will happen, and as a machine you will simply fulfill your roll.
In chapter seven of the novel, Billy knew very well that the plane was going to crash but chose not to tell anyone as he had already accepted his fate, as he had done in the war. I feel he was once again giving up and letting go, and didn’t want to ruin that by telling other members on board. In another case however, what if Billy didn’t know the plane was going to crash, and merely knew from time traveling back into that moment. What happens in the past can’t be altered, and if this is the case, there was no way Billy was going to change what happened. After the plane crash, Billy was diagnosed with major brain trauma, and was said to have dreamed of many things. This just goes to show that most of what Billy is saying could be made up from his mind, and not actually true. While some recollections of things in the past may be true, a lot of it is probably sugar coated to extreme measures.
I think Billy did not say something about the impending plane crash because he believes in predestination. He thinks whatever he will do can not change the future because it is set in stone. Also, wouldn't think you would half to make peace with God, because you would relive the past events of your life. Since Billy just kept his mouth shut, he thought he could just allow people to die without being frightened and panicked.
The way Billy describes his life is like how any other person would describe their favorite movie to you. They would give you the plot line in detail, maybe slip up and slide a few spoilers in. But, no matter how hard you wish, Jack is still going to freeze to death, Loki will still follow the same deranged path he always has, Bruce Wayne's parents will still die when he's eight years old. These are fixed points in these stories. They are there to teach a lesson and form the other characters into who they become throughout the rest of the tales. As the Doctor says, "Some things simply must happen." Perhaps Billy has tried to change his fate before. Perhaps it didn't work at all, perhaps it ended in misery. Billy has become resolved to his fate, to the unchangeable moments in his life. Ignorance is bliss. Why worry people about the inevitable? Wouldn't it just cause more pain in the end?
If I knew the plane was going to crash I would say something because maybe there could’ve been a chance that they could’ve been saved. Also others on the plane could’ve prepared and got what they wanted off their chest if they were hiding something. Maybe if Billy told the pilot that the plane was going to crash the pilot could’ve avoided the mountain they hit. If I knew my plane was going to crash I wouldn’t have gotten on it. I would've taken the next flight to where I was supposed to go and I would've told others that I knew that were going on the flight with me to do the same. I wouldn't want to take the chance of maybe dying even if I knew I wasn't. The future could've changed and Billy didn't see it, so there was a slight chance he could’ve died as well.
If I was in Billy's position I think I would have done the same thing. Why cause the panic and confusion for the few people that may actually have believed him? Everyone would have just ignored him. Besides, why try to force people to live their last moments in distress? On the contrary I also think that the people had the right to know and it was almost selfish of Billy to keep the information to himself. The people on the plane were most likely religious and they deserved the right to make their final prayers. Either way, if I was in the position of the passengers I wouldn't have wanted to be told. It was quite the weird coincidence though, with the writing of this blog post and yet another Malaysian Plane crashing.
To me, Billy did what was right when it came to the plane crash. If you knew there was a very slim chance of survival and no one else was aware, why would tell them? Although it would be nice to make peace with someone or yourself before you were to die, this most likely would not cross said person's mind. Any normal person would be panic induced and not be able to think straight. Some may view Billy's actions as being selfish while other's may view it as, in a way, being heroic. Nobody wants to know when they're going to die and they especially don't want to know how. Billy does the passengers on the plane a favor my sparing their peace of mind before their fateful demise.
There are a couple different reasons why Billy did not tell the other passengers about the impending plane crash. For one, Billy understands that it is dangerous to tempt fate and try to change the course of events. Meddling with fixed points in time can only lead to a different course of events, which could possibly change entire lifetimes. So what if the passengers die? So it goes. It's something that cannot be helped. Another reason why he kept his mouth shut about the plane crash is to prevent fear and panic plaguing the passengers' final thoughts. At this point, the crash is inevitable and telling the passengers about their impending deaths is obviously not going to go over too well. Most might not even believe him, but there will still be that unsettling "what if?" lurking in the back of their minds. I like Kayla's rollercoaster analogy and I have to agree with her -- ignorance is bliss. Allow the passengers a final moment of happiness before the fall.
It really frustrated me when Billy knew for a fact that the plane was going to crash and he didn't do a single thing about it. How could he live with knowing he could have saved people from dying and injuries? But I did understand that there was a reason that he couldn't tell anyone. It is really dangerous to try and change whats going to happen. It could mess up everything in the future. If he tried to save the plane from crashing he would have changed people's entire lives, either good or bad, it's unknown. Billy also did then when he was in the war, knowing that nothing could be done to change the events. I think I might have done the same thing as he did.
I think it was very wrong of Billy to not say anything to the passengers of the plane, knowing it was going to crash. If his reasoning was that he didn't want people to think he was crazy, then that is terribly selfish. Even though some people may have not taken him seriously, some could have.People would have had the opportunity to say goodbye to their friends and families, or to say one last prayer. I was disappointed as to how he handled the situation. With the head injury on top of the time spent in a mental institution, it ensures that Billy's narrations are questionable. After events such as that, no person would be in their right state of mind, and reality could easily be mixed with hallucinations or dreams.
If Billy were to tell everyone what he knew about the plane no one would believe him. Everyone would just shake it off and think he is crazy. This reminds me of the movie Final Destination where the main character has visions of a tragedy that is about to happen and escapes death. I think I would have told everyone if they thought I was crazy or not just because I would be in a panic. I think the fractured skill is making Billy worse. At this point, Billy probably can't tell what it real and what is not.
If Billy were to tell people that the plane was going to crash, and then continue to get on the plane that he "knows" will crash, no one would believe him. If any sane person knew the plane would crash ahead of time, would they get on the plane? NO! They would book another flight. Fate works in mysterious ways. If what the Tralmafadorians say is true, and that there is no way to alter what will happen in the future even though you know it will happen, then possibly that plane would have never crashed. Possibly the next flight Billy got on would have crashed. Possibly Billy would have been forced at gunpoint onto the plane. Who knows? Nobody does now because Billy didn't take that chance. Does Billy ever stop and wonder that the Tralmafadorians could be lying to him or that they are even wrong? Maybe there is another race on another planet who can see into the 5th dimension. If I were Billy, I would not allow myself to board a plane I knew was going to crash, and I could not, in good conscious, fail to warn the other passengers no matter what the repercussions were. I think that Billy does not see this as an option because he is letting himself be controlled by the Tralmafadorians and their opinions.
Since Billy had a head injury from the plane crash helps the theory that he is making all of the stories about the aliens up. I do not think that Billy is full there, mentally at least. With the war, then the mental hospital he was in, and now the plane crash. I feel like Billy is not Billy anymore. I believe that his stories of time travel and how he knows the future are just an effect from everything he has been through. It's like Billy does not know reality from his fantasy's.
Vonnegut put the scene of the women in the story for not only humor, but for beauty as well. The scene is funny because the three men who saw the women in the shower were the least suspecting men to have this happen to. I mean, Billy and Werner were both young boys, and Edgar Derby was old. This scene was also used to create a love and empathy for the people of Dresden. Vonnegut does this so the reader feels a small bit of the emotions associated with the loss of the people. The women showering were refugees who had once already lost their homes and survived a bombing. This unfortunately wouldn’t be the case a second time as they, along with so many others, lost their lives in the Dresden bombing.
I, too, love Sam's view of Billy as an unresponsive person. Also, Kayla's comment of "ignorance is bliss" and Matthew's opinion of having a peaceful death are both plausible. I tend to agree with Sam on this one. Billy is not one to take action or hold a role of leadership. As a pk (pastor's kid), I couldn't imagine preventing those passengers from repenting for their sins for the last time and taking a load off their shoulders. Yet, having a logical mind, I can see how Billy would perceive the Tralfamadorians' theories of every moment being structured and preset and how Billy would find anything and everything to be pointless - absolutely pointless. Overall, Sam's statement rings the truest. Billy does not complex persona. He is not one to ponder all the options and attempt to act on the seemingly best outcome. He is a mentally ill "soldier"' in the Childrens' Crusade. Billy's action of not taking action was as simply as that. He just didn't do anything. Maybe he feels some guilt, but he's been through a lot worse - been through the whole show of death already. So it goes.
Considering Billy's past with being in a mental institution I think he didn't tell people about the oncoming crash because they would all think he is even more crazy then ever! I think he accepted the fact that they were going to crash and took it as some kind of fait and just went with it like he did in the war! Maybe he didn't want to draw attention to himself because he already knew what people thought about him! Another reason why I think he didn't tell people about it is because he didn't want there to be an chaos!Personally I think Billy was being rude and selfish by not telling other people about the crash because he took away innocent lives because of it. With Billy having now a head injury and being in a mental institution I am now starting to question all of his actions in the novel. Nobody knows what is/isn't true anymore!
Why would you do that Billy? You have the lives of hundreds of people in your hands and the possible ability to change their fate. Although you may believe that there is no way to change the inevitable, you must try something. Especially when realizing it is your wife and family, how can you just sit back and watch it all happen. Although I am upset with Billy’s actions, I have more questions. Why did Billy not die during the plane crash? Who's to say this alien nonsense is not all made up after the realization of this major head trauma. It is very hard to believe that Billy was one of only two survivors, and that his whole story is true. On the other hand, Billy has seen a very breathtaking sight. Although not on purpose, Billy, Gluck, and Derby stumble upon numerous naked women. I believe that Vonnegut included this scene to show a true step in the maturity of Billy. Billy is quickly shedding his innocence as he sees one astonishing sight after another.
I feel as if Billy did the right thing by not telling the passengers that their plane was going to crash. Telling them that they were going to face death would just cause chaos among the plane and what would that really solve? Personally, I would rather die unexpectedly and instantly than knowing in a few short moments that I would soon be gone. It's not like any of them would have time to cross much off their bucketlist in that short of a time period anyways. In addition, it is said that Trafalmadorians know when the end is coming, how it is going to happen, and who is going to cause it. Putting the passengers in a panic would do nothing but cause unnecessary stress that would accomplish nothing. In the end, you can't control your own fate or destiney.
I think Billy didn't say anything about the plane crashing because it was going to happen anyway. By telling people that, he would either scare the life out of them prematurely or make himself look crazy for the rest of the time the passengers are still alive. What are the odds they would believe him and decide to make amends and peace with their lives in the last moments they had left. Is he just going to shout "Trust me, I know, I've time traveled and have been abducted by aliens." Other than that, he probably wasn't thinking about the other people aboard the plane. He was most likely thinking about what it would feel like or what is going to happen next. He doesn't pay much attention to others around him when he's in these "time hops."
I think that he could stand to not say something about the plane crashing because of his Tralfamadorian experience. They taught him that life is not a series of moments that happen one right after another. The past, present, and future are all happening at the same time. So while the plane is crashing in that one moment, all those other passengers are alive and well in other moments.
I agree with Billy's decision to not tell people aboard the plane that it was going to crash. When something happens unexpectedly, it's much simpler to overcome and not worry about than dread about the inevitable future. Instead of causing a panic on the plane, Billy chose to let the passengers remain peaceful and full of happy thoughts, which is better than worrying about death. Obviously, Billy is not well and cannot be held as a reliable source of information. His head injury may be the reason he is forgetting certain parts of history, and may also have given him the gift of time travel throughout his memory. The injury proves to be a blessing and a curse by causing Billy to forget important information, but also allowing him to relive his best memories. To me, every point made is this book is so true it could almost be considered creepy. I believe that the "Whom" in the novel is referring to the aliens, just a wild guess.
Billy's experience with the plane kind of reminded me of the show That's So Raven. In the show, Raven would have "visions" and then would try to save the day based on her visions, but they would always turn out the same as she viewed it. I did find it kind of strange that Billy decided not to tell anybody on the plane that he knew the plane was going to crash. At first I thought he may not want to worry the passengers because whether he told them or not the plane was still going to crash. Then I thought maybe he was worried about looking like a time-traveling lunatic, but when did that stop him before? Then I realized that maybe he wanted them to view it like the Trafalmadorian's and live in the moment. He didn't want them to make their peace with God because they would still be alive in present moments. The whole situation really confused me because I thought that if it was me in this situation I would definitely try to stop it.
Perhaps the author chose that fate for the United States so that he can show that maybe Billy's future tellings are false and made up. Maybe Billy made everything up out of boredom or in a fit of insanity.
Lazzaro does seem to talk big and sounds quite intimidating but Billy doesn't really sound afraid rather than intrigued by Lazzaro's rage. If he really wanted to kill Billy then he'd do it then, while he's right next to him and vulnerable.
After you read so many books and watch so many movies I think its really interesting how different people interpret death.
Billy just tends to go with the flow. This is definitely apparent when he knows the plane he is on is going to crash. I feel as though he thought of the whole thing as a "normal" thought and didn't even think anything of it. Which is ultimately why he didn't tell anyone else.
Billy definitely has some questionable narration. Billy having had a head injury and being in a mental hospital proves the point further. It does lead to an interesting story, but you never know if what Billy is saying is true or just a "memory" he dreamed up while he was unconscious.
I could have never been in Billy’s place and allowed the plane to crash, with your father-in-law and coworkers on it, and have kept my mouth shut and not try to do anything. I don’t think that his head injury had anything to do with his craziness and the oddness of the story. These stories would be hard to make up, and would only be able to know the full details unless they lived through it. The scene with the women showering shows how young and pure and innocent the men were that they had no idea what to do when they saw young women naked and showering. When the soldiers were sneakily eating the syrup, they were so desperate for food and malnourished because of the poor living conditions, and being mostly teenagers that they needs the extra vitamins to grow properly. Personally, I have a disorder where I need more sodium than most people, so I can relate to them and finally getting the sodium, or in their case, any vitamins.
If Billy were to tell the passengers that the plane was going to crash, one of three things would probably happen. First, mass panic and hysteria. Second, threats against Billy and possible arrest. Lastly, the plane leaves it course and changes the events of Billy's life that he has already experienced. Billy didn't warn them because of the last option. just like the Tralfamadorians, Billy doesn't believe that he should alter events throughout his time, he just does what he "knows" will happen. This leads me to the statement that while he was unconscious, he "dreamed millions of things, some of them true." This seems like a paradox, because dreams are not true, yet the truth could be a dream. This doesn't make much sense especially when he says that the true parts were the supposed time travel. This makes me further believe that Billy never time traveled, but was imagining it when at the hospital.
After reading this chapter, and reading that Billy knew about the plane crashing and not saying a word. Recently I have been watching the show lost on Netflix. And in this show there is a big factor from a plane crash that changes and ends so many lives. And the fact that billy knew about the whole plane crash and decided to not tell anyone was very selfish. Billy could have saved so many lives especially his father in laws. Billy may have gotten on the plane hoping that it would crash and he would die.
i think Vonnegut includes the scene of the women showering just for the purpose of entertaining the readers and grabbing their attention if they are dazing off.
This reminds me of all the final destination movies. Billy knows about the crash just like the main character in the movies does. Billy doesn't tell anyone though but it the movies the main character does and they escape death but later face a much more gruesome death. I feel like Billy didn't tell anyone because he didn't want anyone to panic or be scared. I personally die an unsuspected death than one that I would know is coming because it would just make me paranoid. I think Billy did everyone a favor by not saying a thing.
Billy's daughter is so fed up with her father and frustrated that he has had these "trips". She just wants him to be normal and healthy. Seeing him this way is probably heartbreaking to her and it has also made her life much more complicated. She says that she wants to kill Kilgore trout because She blames him for Billy's thoughts and trips with the Traflamadorians.
I don't see how the dog can feel like it is floating in thin air just by placing a mirror underneath it because he is still standing on something. I also looked it up on youtube and could not find it.
You can know the plane is going to crash and not say anything because in the end that is what is supposed to happen and to heighten panic in the hearts of the passengers when nothing can be done as a preventative measure would be silly.
The head injury can be accountable for the questionable narration, although it is opinionated. Billy's dreams were more than likely all true to him, so they probably were in the perspective of his daughter, who was there with him most of the time in the hospital anyway.
I think Vonnegut includes the scene with the women showering to make the book a little less dreary. Slaughterhouse-5 is so heavy and sad that Vonnegut may have wanted to add in some interest. Vonnegut also could have wanted to show some humanity in the novel's characters. Peaking in on women showering is such a typical thing for young men to want to do. It's human. I think Vonnegut wanted to show that side of his characters. Lastly, he could have included the women in the showers to show that war kills everything beautiful. In the bombing, all of the young women in the showers died. Burnt alive. Murdered. Vonnegut wants readers to understand that war is merciless, and kills things (and people) that hold such beauty and purity.
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